I mean is it that there shouldn't be a list for LR's from everywhere so that you have all the data that you may need to make work easier for yourself,Nabuur and other country rep's?Looks like its just being done for Uganda....though i would want to know what about any other place?

Hi Moses,

This is not Mary and Pelle thing. This is a project we are demanding as Ugandans for synergy.

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Stanley Okurut

Hi Moses,

I agree with you and we raised this issue at the Nabuur chat of last week-end of having better functioning local networks. Part of it would be to make lists/ groups for every country. I will put forward this issue at the Nabuur camp. (BTW this shows once more how complicated the site is, as it should normally be very easy to find buddys from your country)

Maria

Hi Moses

The reason its being done for Uganda is that Stanley, a Ugandan LR, is organising it.

Like you and Maria, I agree that it would be great to have it for other countries as well. Maybe once the Ugandan Group is up and running, that can act as a model for the rest.

Mary

Mary, and Maria....could i please ask for you assitance in trying to get the minutes that we had as the Nairopbi meet-Up group like i think 5 years ago and what were the recommendations that we made....i am not trying to blow the trumpet but at that time we did give reccomendations that were very clearly written by Johara Belali and submited to Nabuur.....the echo the sentiments that you have just given in the meeting that you had and we saw it coming......we recomended and we tried to get this corrected and it was like i am trying to get a Nabuur Kenya office started...while the issue was that we raised a point that "well how does Nabuur Monitor and Evaluate its projects?"nad PRIORITY was that PLEASE behind every project that is put on Nabuur make sure that SUSTAINABILITY is at the core so that in case Nabuur pulls out then these projects have got a sustainability plan if not then they have an alternative!

I raise this point since i had to even go to the length of pulling away from Nabuur since i was seen as fighting some projects that indeed yes were favoured over others and nabuur called the succcess...well if u dont monitor and eveluate it can never be a success...it cant be a best practise it cant be replicated....Mary i agree with you but there is no longer any need to do it again...we have seen the effect of not having the data that we need for LR's....Johara had a very bda experince with the donor and the LR on the project that she was working with...the representatives at the Nairobi meet up group cited situations where there was an issue with communication on part of the Rep and the person opmn the ground....i hate going back and foth and i thus would just like if its possible that the minutes to thos meetings that were 4 in number brough and so that we can compare notes and see where we go from here...
Apart from that alot of the members on the Nairobi meet uop group are NOT willing to get back to Nabuur since they feel that they have been betrayed by nabuur and i dont blame them....we tried and really tried and even got to a point where we had decided to vet out those projects that were inactive...well these are just the reality of what happende it just pains me to see that what we had seen coming is now begining to come out.....and we saw it....i know there is going top be tempers but well thats the truth...

We no longer need to pilot and try we have seen that this is what is needed....get all the data of LR's in each country.....one of the recomendations we had was that....lets get all projects in what i was calling at that tiome clusters..."all those that are doing OVC(orphans and Vulnerable Children,or HIV/AIDS and Ok trying to get a lap top together....then a list is made out so that funding is shared and looking and trying to get funding is split so that one doesnt seem to be seen to be more effective and better but to help each....well another recomendation a meet up of LR's within one area every fortnight so that there is a common goal and purpose and vision....another recomendation was that try and get training to those who find it hard to use nabuur...there are so many....if we can get those minutes i am sure that they would help you....if Romina or Raul would try and Ok i am talking to those of the Nairobi meet up group to get them....great ideas and great projects is ONLY we can do it RIGHT and WELL and without fear or favour!

Hi Moses

I found the minutes of three of those Nairobi meet ups - you sent them to me a while ago. They are attached.

Mary

Nabuur nairobi meeting @ 10.5.08.doc

Final Copy Nabuur meeting 26th July 2008.doc

Third meeting of Nabuur Kenya Neoghbours.doc

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josephat bwire

HI,FOUNTAIN YOUTH GROUP IS A REGISTERED GROUP IN KENYA AND WE RESIDE IN KAHAWA AND GITHURAI.KINDLY ASSIST US TO BE LINKED WITH THE NAIROBI GROUP SO THAT WE CAN DO OUR PROJECTS TOGETHER BECAUSE WE COME FROM SAME COUNTRY.CONTACT ME VIA 0721484045.KINDLY RESPOND.THANKS IN ADVANCE.

Thanks to every body who are contributing to this discussion and i would like to let you know that as ugandan LRs we tried to come together as one with people like Bukenya fred obala,john tumebaze,and so many others but it flops and some office bearers that were elected from uganda national farmers association office in nakasero did not account for the money they collected. Let me hope this will work out better

Warmst regard
Enon Alex

Hi Alex,
You are right that groups usually breakup very fast if especially their object of associating is money. But i think we want to have this group for synergy and networking. If there will be any monies, it be for the aforesaid.

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Stanley Okurut

Dear fiends,
Thanks for the efforts to unite.
But as one LR,mentioned ,one time such efforts were made,money collected,constitution drafted,meetings were held and so on ....
Up to now we have never recieved a single benefit.
Iam proposing that this time,things will work out.
What happened to the funds collected God can only tell.
Some of us will only join at a latter date.Now we shall keep at the side watching.
Christopher
LR
MASAKA

Sorry tech guys, i have to agree with Cecilia here.. spending 10K to develop the website without any available expenditure plan or nominated external objective person to oversight/audit sounds like throwing money down a drain. Given the previous history of poorly explained and audited expenditure by Nabuur, the previous attempts at developing a new 'you beaut' website.. and all of this being done contrary to the advice that was provided at the time.. well.. put it this way, if it was my money I sure wouldn't be investing in Nabuur right now!! And spending money in such a non-transparent way seems to be to be just going back to the previous way of doing things on Nabuur.

I thought the camp was looking a democratising Nabuur, getting feedback before doing things, and not just spending money without checks and balances? I really really hope that Jennifer's somewhat pessimistic predictions that nothing will change do not come true, but this kind of spending certainly seems to point in that direction.

I have also heard from several people that they receive some rather nasty comments back if they oppose things that Nabuur does. I don't know if it's true but I have heard this from more than 3 sources. I'll let you all know right now that, to stand by my own principles that Nabuur needs to be an open and transparent organisation, I will post any emails relating to Nabuur that are sent to me. I will post them on the Nabuur website, and also sometimes in group emails and on fb, because fb and google etc, although global corporations, are part of life these days and, like the global corporation food & drink we consume (like Nestle?), clothes we wear, cars we drive etc (just about everything we consume), these networking tools can be utilised for common good and I think can be used, not ignored, by Nabuur.

I hope that this isn't taken as an attack either, because it's not. I just think it's time more of us stayed in Nabuur and started to say what needs to be said instead of not saying anything, leaving, and saying it later. And that's not an attack on people who have left, either, as they have their reasons and need to keep themselves safe.

:-)

Hi Nonhlanhla, Siegfried, Cecilia, Romina, Kester, Rolf, Pelle and everyone

I agree there are so many different places on the Nabuur site where posts are going it seems easy for them to get lost. Pelle, as you are taking on the task of cleaning the site up, I am, for now, going to put posts in the appropriate Nabuur development task under the 'Group' tab. I am hoping this is the right place to put all posts related to the groups set up at the camp??

Also Nonhlanhla, I know some of the conversation is not 'pleasant', but Nabuur is, right now, fighting for it's very survival and having watched the organisation and participation deteriorate slowly over the last 18 months or so has been difficult for us all, to put it mildly.

It is a normal part of a group process to 'storm' (to fight and argue) and so although not overly pleasant, this is a healthy sign for the Nabuur groups that have been set up. [Group processes = forming, storming, norming, mourning]

Keeping the conversation pleasant is what has been done for too long on Nabuur. Although it's a good idea to use some diplomacy and tact in bringing up issues, it is very important, and very healthy for Nabuur, to bring up and discuss the difficult isses. This will inevitably cause conflict and heightened emotions! However, these are not attacks on any person, only an attack on Nabuur's problems and ways it has been doing things as an organisation. I think everyone needs to remember this and keep it in mind when adding posts.

I also realise there are alot of posts and discussions, and I personally think that as much of this should be kept in the public domain (of Nabuur) as possible right now. This is becuse Nabuur needs to be, and be seen to be, transparent; free of any accusations of 'back room deals', and of any kind of coercive behaviour. There is a saying 'You are as sick as your secrets'. Nabuur has been perceived as secretive, and is now very sick. It is crucial to its survival that Nabuur changes that perception .. right now!

Of course, if there is a personal dialogue going on it should be kept on a personal level but if it is something to do with Nabuur, however unpleasant, this should be up for general comment and feedback.

Keeping Nabuur alive is going to take courage and will involve conflict. I just hope everyone involved can stay with it, and remember, it's not personal. The primary focus is to get Nabuur fully functioning in a healthy way
.
Keep smiling! .. Most of you (northern hemisphere mob) are going into spring next week, remember? Things can get better, if we let them!

Lynley

- Show quoted text -
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Nonhlanhla Dube

Dear All,

I really do not have anything new to say from what has been mentioned by quite a number of people already. I strongly agree with those who say that we are suffering an information overload at the moment, too much mail bouncing back and forth and I am honestly losing track of so many things. I too however have not missed the recent unpleasant conversations and I am not writing to justify or attack any of it- I am sure we all agree too much harm is filtering into the system and we need to find a way to move forward ALL within the best interests of what Nabuur is about- reaching out to and helping make a difference in local communities (I may have that part wrong given my limited knowledge on the concept but I hope it does not matter so much :-).

My humble suggestion is that we reserve comments relevant for each group within those groups and provide an update weekly or every fortnight depending on how busy that particular group is on this platform. Public postings, in my opinion, are meant to foster transparency and provide clarity to multiple users. If an individual's post does not serve that purpose it should be perfectly fine to send a private message to individuals concerned. There are things that nobody needs to hear or read and I feel that attacking other people or saying things that are not nice will never get us half-way where we want to go. Furthermore, sometimes it is enough for me to know that a particular group has made a decision because of A,B,C and not have to know of every chat ever made and every word ever said. I don't know if there be any who feel the same but all this unnecessary information is starting to become an unbearable burden for me.

I also could not help but notice the multiple messages that seemed to be targeted to the developers. If my judgment has been wrong, and seeing as I cannot take the words back that I am writing here, please skip the rest of this paragraph and go straight to the next one. Please, let us try to be more understanding. We have given a tall order to the developers, thinking about it now we probably should have made a clear distinction between what would be nice to have on the new website and what is most basic and necessary. Expectations have been raised, true, but if any of the wishes cannot be met given the time line and everyone's eagerness to get this over with would it be too much on our part to understand that? I think that the developers' dedication is no less than that of anyone else here. Let us try to listen to each other more and spend less time trying to be heard. No guarantees were made that this would be easy and I would have fallen off my chair if it went smoothly without any glitches but we have to find a way to make the best of it, trying to put ourselves in other people's shoes as we go along. It also helps if a person that says something will not work or that something is very wrong can bring a suggestion on the table about how to make the right wrong. It is not fair how big a burden we cast on other people without being part of the solution.

I still have faith in everyone's ability to see this through to successful completion. Yes, we will miss a few things, but we have everyday after the deadlines set to make it better. Perfection is something I have never known in areas that we are treading upon but a large part of that probably has to do with the fact that the major driving forces behind it all- human beings like myself and every other person reading this that will agree- are far from perfect. We dream, we try to accomplish those dreams, we move 1 step forward and 2 steps back, we falter, we make mistakes, we learn from them and we don't give up on our dreams. In the end what counts is that we get where we want to go and when we look back on the journey we will most likely have regrets about one or 2 things- we may choose not to apologise for it but we certainly always need to apologise to fellow travellers we may have wronged along the way.

Let me be the first to apologise if I have offended anyone. I earnestly hope I have not done so in this e-mail or other postings I have made but so much happens that I am never aware of because I am not on the receiving end.

Let's go back to the drawing board, let us start with the end in mind and order our steps in accordance with that. Along the way things may go wrong but I know that if we remain true to the dream of Nabuur probably in alignment with our own dreams to make a difference, there is nothing we will not be able to overcome.

I do not expect 100% agreements on this, but I hope it at least brings more focus on how we can do this better than on how others are doing it all wrong.

I wish you all a great weekend.

Kind Regards,

Nonhlanhla

Lyn i agree with you 101%.......but(there is a but.....i am guessing you are saying this is NOT.....GOOD!)WEll you see i think there are people who just talk without thinking and in the process hurting people who have given so so much of their time...their energy and their effort...and i feel for those people who this has happened to i being one of them!@On the other hand there is a group that without a doubt feel that without their decision there in-put their comments..or recommendations or input then there is nothing that can go on....and so we are just there.....Well thats the truth and if we dont get to these tethering problems then i think they are just abound to be bigger along the way.I really i am NOT interested in who said what or what was said by who or not....please learn to listen...learn to hear and learn to be a good communicator DONT JUST OPEN UP YOUR BIG MOUTH WITHOUT THINKING ON THIS SITE....and more so there those things that we can send a personal message to and ask other than airing our dirty linen in public!I have people who hate me on this site..i have people who dont like my comments and i have people who dont even want me here BUT thats no reason for me to take it out on the site and people...if you dont have anything to do..DONT DO IT HERE!

Dear Moses

Of course, you are wanted here! Dont be silly! :) No one is unwanted here. Village representatives dont dump orphans & people in need in your village, Nabuur.com dont dump you guys...how simple is that? Its just Basic TRUST!!!!

Somtimes we dont do a good job of it. WE could do better! For sure, we can do better! lol.

But would you think about this for me?

In the Southern Chinese Ancient Kingdom we have this saying," No fighting, no closeness" meaning YOu are never truly Your Complete Self with another person until you have shown the side of you that "can be negative " as well as "positive". For some Northern European Cultures, "fighting" is a sign of lost of control and should be avoided AT ALL COSTS. I dont come from that Culture. I come from a different one that goes back 5000 years and I like that part of my culture. :)

And I also come from a new world culture that is only 300 years old! I am both.

But lets say we look at Hong kong as a METAPHOR for how things CAN be worked out in the New Nabuur.com:

When Britain controlled Hong kong, at first we the Cantonese Chinese were told, we should stop "shouting or being rude" because in that part of Europe, Britain belonged to, they didnt like shouting and it was considered Uncivilised and backwards. After 200 years of living together, the British learnt that if you dont let the Chinese shout and be blunt, well...nothing EVER got done and sometimes Even if they try to do something themselves without involving the chinese, well mysteriously the projects always failed, again and again and again in really weird ways !! :)

Because the British were " sometimes very smart" about some things...they helped Built the FREE-EST Democratic First world Economy in the world with the Free-est stock market in Hong kong by letting us Cantonese Chinese, shout our little faces off whenever we needed to because well, we have been doing it for at least 4000 years and if you combine Ancient Chinese shouting to get to "Closeness (Wholeness)" with British Technology at the time of its BIGGEST empire in the world....Hong kong is pretty bloody amazing today in 2010!!! :)

I get so much LESS done when I have people from telling me constantly that I am "uncivilised" if I shout and express things! Worst still, usually the projects around me get nothing done also because well...there are a lot of like-minded "metaphorically chinese people" in the world... who belongs to cultures that NEEDS to express to INNOVATE! :) Its not a NEW world order. Its just an ANCIENT world order!

all the best.
余詠詩 ( name written in Chinese)