Below are previous posts relevant for the NABUUR developers team:

Ron Stafford
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Wed, 2009/12/09 - 19:42
Frans,
Many Thanks for the for the
information and link. I will do my homework on the information you have sent
and get back to you soon. Having used iterative development methodologies on
real-time (ATC) and safety critical (Nuclear) projects I am very comfortable
with the processes. The manner in which the development progressed was never a
concern to me.
My aim was to fully
understand the 'Functions' that were needed or specified, and thus the system's
final functionality.
Regards,

.
 
Frans
Re: Website

Wed, 2009/12/09 - 15:57
Ron,
I will try to answer your
question to my best knowledge. When I started at Nabuur on May 1st 2008, the
site was almost ready to go. Most important tasks by then was the migration and
theming of the site before it could go live. There was a lot of pressure to
launch the new website as soon as possible.
The functionality what was
asked for is described in the document 30 which as far as I know is
communicated to the nabuur community too (I believe in this post)

We adapted to work in a agile production process
where there are no Requirements Set, Requirements Analysis, System Design docs
(my interpretation) and with the scrum
method. We wrote the user stories on the basis
of the document mentioned above. You can find all user stories here.
I agree with you that
re-looking at what Functions the site serves (Functionality) and comparing that
to what the neighbors need from it would be a useful discussion. I feel a
discrepancy between the wish for a formal way of doing (project, tasks,
task-discussion, duration) and an easy to use site.
Hope this helps, Frans
 
Raul Alberto
Caceres
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Tue, 2009/12/08 - 17:37
Hi Frans,
Thanks for your reply.
Not trying to give you a
tricky question :). I just wondered if for example you are going to be the lead
developer volunteer and then people are going to help with bugs and stuff or
everyone will be working at the same time or will you just commit to put the
site up if it goes down but stay away from development?.
I have to confess I struggle
a bit with believing that if one person actually showed up for a conference
call there is an expectation to have many people to actually be physically
somewhere for a camp.
Let me know once the
development server is ready to work on it.
Thanks,
Raul

Frans
Re: Website

Tue, 2009/12/08 - 16:56
Ron,
Thank for your interest in
the development issue.
I will like to answer your
question about the website design process tomorrow. Need some time to find some
old documents :-)
Frans

Frans
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Tue, 2009/12/08 - 15:20
Dear Raul,
Thank you for the extensive
reply.
It was a misunderstanding
about throwing away content. I assumed so because the quote here:

Quote:
Have a new site: A new site
should also be built
where i thought it is indeed
easier to build a new site from scratch then it is to take all old content with
you.
Quote:
Would you be able to inform
us what your involvement will be once you are a volunteer? What is the
development model that will be used. Just to get an idea of whether it could
work for me to be involved on a volunteering basis
Is this a trick question :-)
The development model that
will be used is not known to me. It will be to the new Nabuur development group
to discuss and develop the development model. It will be one of the subjects
during the nabuur camp. My role will be that of supporter at the start of the
development group. I can explain to the group what infrastructure is there,
where is the code and development database, what are the user stories we used.
In the mean time I can setup
a sandbox for you on the development server. You are completely free to do on
this sandbox what you like and ask the community for feedback on your ideas or
ask other developers to join in. By doing this you would help to define how we
can do development differently, and we also have more input and building blocks
for the NabuurCamp. I will send you the details for the sandbox later this week
by email.
On your technical comments
and choices of the new site I would like to come back to you later this week.

Frans
 
Raul Alberto
Caceres
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Tue, 2009/12/08 - 08:04
Hi Frans,
I'm doing well in Canada,
thanks :)
I never suggested throw
content away. All the opposite. Whatever is done needs to be build using the
strength of that information but done in the most effective possible way.

I also never suggested using
a similar user registration form like the one I used for Cancer Connections
which is a very specialised site with a very specific purpose where connecting
people with similar people is very important.
Again, when I say simpler is
better I am directly addressing things that I can now see are being done in a
very different way than I would do myself when designing a site like Nabuur.
Thanks for giving me access
to the back end. Now I can give you my comments.
- So far it looks pretty much
like it is being built almost in the same way as the current site
- There are way too many
modules and a lot of them which I don't see a purpose to put. I do not add a
module unless it is completely necessary and the value is adding is way higher
than the speed is taking away from the site and specially in this type of
website that is going to be used by people in countries with low speed. Just to
give you an idea, it took about almost 30 seconds to load the modules page and
that is with a speed of 3Mbb/s.
- Just to give you some
examples of modules that are taking too much speed and not adding a huge
improvement
* Apache soir - Is there
really a need where you can set up a lot of specific searches using views?
* Calais: Are we really into
a stage to start using Calais given the level of development of people. I
really don't see a purpose
Theme

The genesis theme you are
using is not really a theme that is that easy to theme as compared with other
more popular themes. At the same time, given the amount of resources invested
in this site, why not to buy a theme for about 300Eur that could make it a lot
easier to theme on a framework that is very developed. It is obvious right now
that the theme is not looking very well and I also found some issues with code
just on a very superficial look.
Using the power of popular
modules
it would be great to give
more power to modules like views that make it a lot easier for people to search
content which is for example one of the things that are most important for
people.
Why not use more exposed
filters to search content
Why is panels not being used.
One of the most powerful modules at the moment.
I tend to not go into a new
area of the site until I get another area well developed and it looks to me
like there are a lot of small developments in many areas but most of them with
multiple issues.
Would you be able to informs
us what your involvement will be once you are a volunteer? What is the
development model that will be used. Just to get an idea of whether it could
work for me to be involved on a volunteering basis
Thanks again and look forward
to your comments,
Raul

 
Mary
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Mon, 2009/12/07 - 20:50
 
WEBSITE DEVELOPMENT
How much ha the development
of the new website cost so far, and how much more to complete it? Who was
involved? We have occasionally been asked for feedback, but this has not been
done in an organised way, so how are you sure that the site will meet the needs
of current and new neighbours, facilitators, and local reps? From a very quick
look via the link that Frans posted, it does not look that different to the
current site (except that the pages look very unexciting as all one colour),
but am assuming there must be something different, or why create it?
Mary
 

Frans
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Mon, 2009/12/07 - 16:47
Good evening Raul,
How are you doing in Canada?
About more rights on theme.
On theme you are developer
now. Log in with your username, email is not working for you there.
Theme has only three filled
villages, try /village/jinja-central.

About answering my question:
Hope you will find time for
that too.
Frans.

Raul Alberto
Caceres
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Mon, 2009/12/07 - 16:40
Good morning Frans,

Thanks for this.
Would you be able to give me
permission to have a look at the admin sections or as musch as you think is
appropriate? I'd like to have a look at the set up from the back end so that I
can give a better oppinion?.
Thanks again,
Raul
 
Siegfried Woldhek online
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Mon, 2009/12/07 - 16:05
- Questions re the website
have been addressed by Frans earlier today. All those interested have been
invited to follow and contribute to the development of the new site. It has
been visible online right from the start. The latest version can be seen here http://theme.nabuurtest.com/ . Comments and suggestions are still very welcome.
 
Ron Stafford
Website

Mon, 2009/12/07 - 15:38

Frans,
When the site was re-done
about two years ago did Nabuur take a System Engineering approach? Do you have
the functionality of the site described, the Requirements Set, Requirements
Analysis, System Design docs and the like? I would be very interested to see
what Functionality was asked for?
Given that doing what was
done before has brought us to this point, where we are all concerned for the
future, perhaps re-looking at what Functions the site serves (Functionality)
and comparing that to what the villagers need from it would be a useful
discussion.
Ron.
 
Frans
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Mon, 2009/12/07 - 11:32

Dear Raul,
I agree fully with you about
the strength of building a new website with drupal, no question about
it.
But using it for NABUUR, then
you have to consider some facts:
·        
We have content from about
2004. Do you really want to throw that all away? If not what are you migrating
into your new site, what is left behind?
·        
Nabuur is/was used to a very
procedural way of working (village, background, projects, tasks, priority, time
needed). As I remember well you where in favor of keeping these procedures at
the start of migrating to Drupal.

·        
Like you say here again: --
simpler is better -- and i agree with you here again. But I am sure we loose a
lot of the old content if we goo this way. Please, don't tell me this is simple to fill in for people who are just starting with
computers and Internet.
If you would like to have a
look at the new site, here you see the latest version: theme
Please can you tell us what
your thoughts are with a new website, and especially what you propose on
exsisting procedures and content?
I hope you are able to help
to make the new website rock.
Frans
 

Raul Alberto
Caceres
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Mon, 2009/12/07 - 09:54
- Putting the lead for the
development of the site much more with the users and the developers. Hard
to believe that after many developers and hundreds of thousands of euros spent
in sites now a site that is not finished but "almost ready to be taken
over" will be the solution. I have not even seen what has been done and
the more time I have spent developing in Drupal the least I understand how
thigns have gone wrong.
 
Ron Stafford
Volunteers
taking on more - NABUUR Online Teams

Sun, 2009/12/06 - 21:04
Pelle,
Thank you for the
information. I'll look at the wiki next.
When you take over a company
you do 'Due Diligence'.
You may be familiar with it
but it case you're not it just means you check the books, the stocks, the
bills, the receipts, the accounts, that the people are real, and establish that
the company is doing what it claims it is. This provides the potential buyers
or investors with an opportunity to satisfy themselves that all is well.
Essentially the volunteers
are being asked to take over many new things, so for Nabuur a few questions of
clarification are very reasonable.
How many active villages are
on the books?
How many villages have
successfully achieved the project they came to Nabuur with?

How many stalled villages are
on the books?
How many villages are 'in
waiting' to join?
How many trained facilitators
are there?
How many facilitators are
waiting to be trained?
How many LR's are waiting to
be trained?
At what point in the life-cycle
is a project considered complete?
What are the criteria for
saying Complete?
What online training exists?
Is Nabuur's current aim only
to provide a communication platform(s)?

Understanding the status of
'where everything is' will help the volunteers collectively set the aims,
goals, and ideas for the future.
Ron.
 
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Sun, 2009/12/06 - 20:00
I've just posted a Q&A
here: http://www.nabuur.com/en/group/nabuurcom-website-development/project/wik...

It's a wiki, so new
questions, answers and ideas can be added.
Ron, thanks for sharing your
thoughts about the different teams and the issues that should be solved. That's
a great basis to set up the teams that are needed.
Raul, happy to have you on
the development team and glad you can offer some time. I think it would be best
to get you directly in touch with Frans & Kester to get you up to speed on
the development. I'll nudge them.
Pelle
 
Raul Alberto
Caceres
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Sun, 2009/12/06 - 04:49
I am again offering some
support building a new site if you are open to start with a new site and taking
into account that it will grow based on what a volunteer can offer in terms of
time.
Some of the sites I have
built in drupal 6 (same platform used for this site but a one version more
recent) in the past year include:
www.cancerconnections.com.au
www.suburbmatchmaker.com.au
www.simssolutions.net.au
Drupal is really powerful. I
am not completely sure why this site has not used Drupal to its highest
potential but I can offer some time to build a new site. If some one can create
training material I can train that person on how to use training module in
Drupal.
Again. I'm here if you feel
my support can be useful. My approach has always be that simpler is better.
 

Raul Alberto
Caceres
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Sun, 2009/11/29 - 21:44
I also think the only way to
continue is to start with a completely new way yo do things, my opinion is that
it would be required to:
- Have a new site: A new site
should also be built (which I have offered my help to do so) and with full
access to the server (or even a new server) to a number of volunteers that can
respond to any issue across time zones.
- Clear inactive villages and
neighbours and run with manageable numbers if the site is to run fully by
volunteers.
- Select a new board with
volunteers
I am also going to have a
hard time calling in for the conference but I think my point is clearly
explained. I think they only way Nabuur will survive is if things are radically
changed and a new start based on the lessons learnt from the mistakes is the
way forward.

Nabuur has also meant a huge
amount to me since 2005 when I joined and I also hope to see it alive but it
has to be doing things in a different way
Raul
 
Raul Alberto
Caceres
Re: Join
the NABUUR Online Teams

Fri, 2009/11/27 - 23:35
I have to say I feel sad and
frustrated after reading the email send to all of the community this morning.
Sad because of how much Nabuur has meant to me and frustrated because of how
the whole site development thing was managed throughout the years. The more I
learnt about Drupal the more surprised I was at how much money was spent in
site development and how little it was achieved. I just can't understand it.
Also I never understood why people's views were never taken into account and it
was always as Mary says "Thanks a lit for your contribution but we know
how to do things"
 

Hi everybody,

I think what is lacking is a focus of the design, the arrangement of the forum/pages of the villages is a design which supports the process a project goes through when one goes trough from "discussing an idea" to "reaching a set goal". This is roughly how a project gets from an idea to a result:

1. discussing an idea (is there in the current website)
2. making the idea measurable (and stop discussing about it (is not there in the current website))
3. discussing ideas on how to make this idea measurable (is there in the current website)
4. dividing tasks to get work on the results set via the discussed ideas in point 4). (is partially there/ often ends up in more discussion) (how can you design/establish pages which tend not to focus on discussion but does support the tasks the neighbours do?)
5. measuring the progress made (is not there in the current website)
6. reporting on the progess made (is there in the current website)
7. a clear structure of the roles (which neighbour does what and who can this role/neighbour turn to when having questions about a specific tasks he/she does). It is not there, which often leads to a "re-discussion" on the idea itself (a "re-discussion" in point 1), something I think you often want to aviod as it slows down the project.

I think these thing can be easily added to the design (they can all be extra pages in plain texts), so the local representative and neighbours are forced to focus on results rather then keep on talking about ideas and never starting to actually work on tasks.

These are my 50 cents, and I know they only focus on the project management side of things, not the "getting to know eachother" bit or the "unlocking the large bulk of usefull information allready gathered by neighbours in other villages which is usefull in your spefic project".

Kind regards,
Lieuwe

Hi everybody,

About the look and feel of the new design: if you want the page to work in slow connections, keep the design simple, so you will need less HTML, CSS and Javascript code. This way the pages will probarbly look less appealing but will load quicker (on the other hand: my personal website is specifically developed with as little code as possible, yet does looks not that bad (I think).

From a techical standpoint: just have a look at the HTML, CSS and Javascript used). I think it would be good to avoid certain designques which take up loads of HTML, CSS, and Javascript to get everything right in every browser, and(background) images (like rounded corners, or (scaling) borders which are made by images rather then HTML/CSS). This would mean: less appealing and less options for your look and feel bit of the design, yet much quicker loading times of pages.

Kind regards,
Lieuwe

Hi Raul,

Thanks for taking he time to have a look at the new website and the comments on it here. Let me give you some answers.

On the other hand we have changed a lot in the new site:

• New villages don need to have a project, just a window to the world and communicating is alright now. They have some time to orientate themselves, collect a community around them before starting a project.
• On the village frontpage we have a "hang out" place where neighbours can communicate with small messages. We hope to have less "off topic" messages in the projects.
• The process of starting a village on the current site is very cumbersome. We spend a lot of time to make this very easy in the new site.

The theming of the villages pages is not ready yet. It will be finished before the NabuurCamp. A number of blocks are still to be add.

Ideas to make it better are welcome.

• Panels was not available for Drupal 6 when we started developing the new site.
• Panels carries a performance hit because the layout variables live in the database and a lot of code is executed to render the pages.
• Caching of panels and panes works fine on a static site, but is much more difficult in a community site where content is added every minute.
• Genesis whith gpanels can do the trick.

Some last remarks:

• There is a lot of exsisting data. About 180.000 nodes, 17.500 files, 20.000 embedded videos, 50.000 external links and much more. People have put a lot of effort to write and upload this content, don't let it get lost.
• There are a lot of long time functionalities and procedures like villages, projects, tasks, discussions, wiki's. The community has to decide it they want to loose any of these.
• Most of the groups are just used as forums. Investigate if converting the groups to forums would be feasable and make the site easier.

Migrating the current site to an easier to use new one is a big challenge.

Hope this clears up the questions to have about the new website for Nabuur.com.

Frans

Fri, 2010/01/01 - 00:07

Hi All,

Sorry that I have not been able to contribute lately. I have been on holidays and travelling to places with reduced internet capabilities.

I will comment here again rather than to one of the other few discussions that have been created and might get people lost.

Thanks Kester and Frans for your answer I just want to add that it is great to use some of the modules you are explaining but I still don't understand why the simpler things are not done better first and then put more time into the more complex ones. I know using the modules page as an example of site speed is not a measure of what a normal page takes to load but it is a great measure of the amount of modules you are using. My opinion is that things should be kept simple, get the simple things right and the rest will follow. You just need to a site to publish volunteer opportunities, villages and for users to be able to find their way through both. That really does not need a huge amount of modules. As an example, look at Kiva.org as an example. Not the best looking site but it is doing the work, why?, they are keeping it simple. Opportunities search based on 6 simple fields on a sortable table. The formula is really not that hard. Keep it simple.

I still have mixed feelings about the NabuurCamp but would like to hear what others think about it. Maybe there is another discussion about it somewhere else but did not get a chance to find it.

Getting volunteers involved in development and other things is great but expecting that it could run just with volunteers is what I am not so sure about. In any camp concept there is always a leader of the project that will do all the hard continuous work. I give myself as an example, I love helping and I thought I was going to have time while on holidays but the reality is other, we all have things we need to attend to survive and to continue our lives, time over a weekend is fine but in the long run I don;t think it is sustainable to expect people to put add a constant amount of time over a long period of time and on a volunteering basis.

Just one questions I would like ask before applying to be at the camp:

- How many volunteer web developers and designers with experience in community building and Drupal 6 have applied to be at the camp?

I would love to hear what others think.

Raul

Dear Siegfried.

Mary mentioned in her Web development team thread today that Raul has kindly offered to link Nabuur to 30 Drupal developers in australia.

Would this ease the burden on the 10K Euros IT budget to enable some room to get some Insurance for the Nabuur Charity so there is at least "Public Liability Insurance" covered?

http://www.nabuur.com/en/group/nabuurcom-website-maintenance-and-develop...

________________________________________________________________________________________-

Rauls' message

A proposition before money is spent
Hi All,

Just a quick note.

I am managing a Social Innovation Camp this weekend where we will have about 70 people working on 8 different ideas including about 30 developers. One of the ideas is a micro-volunteering site that in essence is not so different from Nabuur. It will be built on Drupal and we are going to open source what ever it's developed this weekend.

My proposition is to wait at least for a couple of weeks to see what happens with this project. I could volunteer to do the connections required to make this happen and see how we can build from what is developed.

There will be at the camp some of the best Drupal developers in Australia so I have a feeling that some very good things could come from it.

Hopefully people will like the idea and saving some money is always great.

Anyway, I might not be looking back at Nabuur much until March 15 so feel free to email me if you decide this is a good idea. Most people know my email here

Thanks,

Raul

I am interested in joining the developers team. I have many skills in web designing and i can help out any where it is fit for me.
--
Siame Benny