Romina's comment where I am not allowed to respond to it right now because there is a technical glitch.
http://www.nabuur.com/en/comment/2010/02/26/interim-board?sort=desc&page...

This is causing some problems for me because I end up getting angry emails from people about the content of Rominas posting but I am not allowed to respond.

Its getting rather....well...undemocratic.

Please is it possible to fix the Glitch so I can respond to Romina. At least to explain that I did not lie about anything. There was a plan that had been "tabled" by Siegfried from the Agenda....and I had not been told about it so made the announcement based on when the "an interim board to transition to a full elected board" was still on the Agenda.

Yes, when I tried to answer Romina's enquiries about "interim board" or not and try to give my explanation. I posted a few times but none of it has appeared on the Thread that she opened about "what I said". So right now on that page there is only her first comment and then NO chance for me to respond and no chance for her to say anything...

I dont know. I believe it is possible that there is a technical problem on that one thread.

Cecilia

I too have been trying to get to Romina's response as I have worked with her for years and really want to know her opinion about what is going on. I really doubt a 'glitch' has erased her comments. I do know she could have erased them, but I hope she will share them again for those of us who really want to know what she thinks.

--
Ginger :)

Dear Siegfried.

There is no Interim board as a legal entity because it has not been enacted. The concept was there during our discussions which I know was kind of "legal jargon infested" because well, its hard to not speak about Governance issues in some of the easier legal language.

To my understanding, the issue of Interim board was discussed several times on the agenda.

I put forward that discussion about Interim board and liability insurance because under civil law, being on the Interim Board to draft the documents also gives you certain protection from liability and on top of that Siegfried, you agreed nabuur.com will in future pay for Liability insurance for All (interim and full elected board). Right now, there is less legal protection for the volunteers working on Governance issue under European Law for this kind of indemnity from liability. It actually makes you, Siegfried personally liable but you are somewhat protected as a Statutory Director and if I work on this without an Interim Board, I would be personally liable but without the protection of some of the "Corporate Veil". The law define the roles differently in Civil as oppose to Common law which we are used to.

Do you want the record of the notes I took at the meeting? I have published some of it but unfortunately I know that in that last section of the meeting, it went over a few people's head cos it was soo late, they were hungry, exhausted and there was an external person from the organisation giving nabuur a grant was sitting in. So unfortunately I dont expect "recall" to be very clear after, that was why I took the handwritten notes to the questions I posed to you, Siegfried directly in the last Governance meeting.

We have also had some background discussion about European law and the looseness of NGO configurations under Dutch law that was discussed over a coffee break.

I am trying to "strategically ask for an Interim Board" again because it is not just the "fair way" of transitioning from 1 June. It is a way that gives "the most transparency" to lead up to a democratic election of board.

If it goes straight from Existing Board to the next Board, it will always "feel like" a dynastic power change rather than a Democratic process....

In some ways maybe I am influenced by US constitutional law AND Australian Company law in this. But I believe it is important to "Show Transparency of Process" from the very first instance of Drafting a Constitution and Governance Instrument that will regulate how future Democratic Elections of Boards are held.

Please, Siegfried. You know I am a fan of your personal visions. But you also know I am not always a Fan of the "processes" within Nabuur's core working teams. This is not because I am rude or blunt or mean-spirited to others. It is becaues I am just too Honest for my own good when it comes to saying things I see! :( Its a huge personal flaw of mine.

Cecilia

Thank you Moses for your input. I know it takes a lot of courage to give honest Feedbacks from inside the system.

Since my proposal for an Interim Board to Draft a proper Democratic constitution and a proper Governance instrument to allow for All future Democratic Board election, has been "tabled" right now. I cannot make any representation from a position other than being just another "volunteer" like you and so many others.

The difference is that as a volunteer in Nabuur.com I am new to it (as Romina has repeatedly point out to me in her private & public messages re: her opposition to an Interim Board idea, which unfortunately I cannot respond to as the thread for that discussion is locked and no one can post onto it openly). So I dont know everything and I dont presume to know everything.

BUT what I do know is that I can make this promise. Whatever plan proposed in Nabuur in the future, as long as I am still involved with the Governance Tasks, I will always "prioritise" Democratic Transparent decisions that favors the Volunteers Using the Actual website & Village projects over any other "master"....yes, Service first before Ego and Personal Profit.

I am only Human and I will make mistakes. Your support and real feedbacks means a lot to those working to get a "democratically elected board".

Thank you to all the village representatives and Project leaders. YOU guys are Nabuur.com now. :)
Please dont be silent. (well at least not in this Thread where you can post openly your ideas! lol.)

Cecilia.

P.S Please dont misunderstand me, I am not accusing anyone. I am saying THIS is my Personal Priority. It does not imply that others do not Share my Priorities.

Hi Cecilia,

At the NABUUR Camp I mentioned that the present board said that it wants to step down by June.  A little team (you, Lyn and me) volunteered during the last session to look at the implications. It was called the governance team.  An interim board may well be necessary to bridge the gap between June and the election of a new board. But surely there is no interim board now.  The present board is in function, until recommended and decided otherwise.
 
The three of us plus anyone else interested need to sort out the outstanding questions at http://www.nabuur.com/en/group/nabuur-governance-team/project/nabuur-gov... ) visible for everyone of course, and share the conclusions/recommendations to a wider audience once they're drawn .

Regards,

Siegfried

I think the bottom line that we should be looking @ is Service above SELF......i am not so sure where the money issue came up from but i read the note and studied them....i think there should be a board and i will use the Words Cecilia used DONT JUST THROW AWAY MONEY,.....i also support her in saying that she should NOT STEP DOWN..and to insinuate that there was a "coup" thats just so lame....i think whats really happening here is what we had in Nairobi and thats why i used it and keep using it as an example...a group of people felt that they should always be the once getting the funding from Nabuur,they felt that their projects are favored and thus any other project was null and void...thus the staff in Nabuur in Netherlands were misled when the Nairobi Meet Up group asked:How does Nabuur Monitor and evaluate? The outcome was that...the Nairobi Meet up Group with Me(Moses Okoth behind it want to form a Nairobi Nabuur office while the notes were there the discussions were there and it could be clearly seen that this was just witch hunting and that there were people who felt that they were above and always RIGHT and its either their way or NO WAY or the HIGHWAY!
The basic reasons that happened then are happening now and i sadly say that Cecilia's sentiments are so right and no one should feel that there is anyone taking sides BUT we are looking at the BEST INTEREST of EVERYONE and a way that each and everyone will be happy!If its not too much to ask..... why doesnt the board have the site done with Volunteers...see how it works..and we could just say well this is a great job and as a token of our appreciation...we give the team that sis this.....this much.There are people like Lyn that i have seen work their assess off (sorry for using that word) and they dont get a penny,Raul,Mary,Barbs and so many other that i would love to mention that have brough and developed projects from the ground and they have never asked for a dime...dont you think that they also deserve some money if that was to be what we think?
SERVICE BEFORE SELF...once again like i say...these are just my thoughts!

Virginia

No, there will be no transparent profile. :) no your privacy is safe. This is about transparency of those running nabuur and how things can be done better.

Actually I am going to give an honest feedback. I think the founder of nabuur is a visionary who really deserves a lot of credit for what has occurred. There is a transitional growth phase. There will always be hiccups. Sometimes some people dont want things one way and others want things a different way.

For the size of the organisation, nabuur is quite well run. I personally believe it will be even better when more Volunteers are involved so nabuur can reflect the "heart ethics" of what nabuur stands for and send out the right kind of energy. It has good energy. But it is growing and evolving and this transformative process is well...having some teething problems.

I will pass on your ideas about the website to our new Quality Assurance volunteer expert. He is working with the current IT team. We are not sure if money will be paid because until the workload and what Users would like is clear, it is very hard to say why money need to change hand or not, as yet.

Hope this is all good!
Cheers
Cecilia

I'm not so sure I want to see what goes on behind the scenes.... it is quite alarming. Is there some kind of money involved in this? I thought all wages had been cut and everyone - including Zigfried were now volunteers. What does it mean 'if we are sued' Who would sue and why?? Does this all have to do with how poorly run Nabuur has been for the past 3 years?
Anyway - I wish you guys the best of luck-

re: the website: you must not only put a up list of charities, foundations, etc in ONE place it must be updated (and by whom?)- AND there must be a way to find out if a village has already applied to it 1 or 2 years before and been turned down without reading through hundreds of posts. I have been trying to pass along info about a Mosquito Consortium, and come to find out it is the same one that Pelle spoke to Paul Bulenzi about 2 years ago. What were the results???? Last pet peeve. People have got to stop talking about shipping free goods from the US because it is PROHIBITIVELY expensive and it just feels like new neighbors come on board and try to reinvent the wheel. They need to be given specific tasks by the LR or facilitator or they just take on whatever they feel like - and finding a list of Mosquito agencies (without even looking into them) seems to be the first task taken on!!!
We need to teach people who REALLY care how to do fund raising with school children - that is a brilliant way to teach kids about universal problems and brotherhood while raising money for specific tasks. Last week one of my high school groups raised $3,500 in one week to send wheelchairs to Haiti. Another group is raising money to send drinking straws to an organization who will pay for the shipping to a refugee camp in Uganda.
Surely people on Nabuur in the Western nations have children in school who could learn from fund raising for those less fortunate???
PS - why do we have to scroll down to the bottom of the page on this thread instead of the newer ones being on top???
--
Ginger :)

I am trying to the best of my ability to describe the situation from the notes I took at the Camp when the meeting was going on.

I know I posted information about a legal entity that constitutes an "interim board" if all board members want to step down by 1 June.

I dont know if these threads got to anyone here because I cannot see on screen if my posting shows up or not. There appear to be a "technical glitch" that applies to certain "threads" only. hmm...

Anyway, at the risk of Starting more stuff, I need to stand by my own principle and philsophy of "transparency" regardless of whether it is popular or not.

So I am posting this in response to Seigfried's negation of an "interim board".

I stand by what I explained was discussed on the last Sunday at Nabuur camp in the Governance talk. I have kept my own notes about it in details. WE did discuss the issue of an Interim Board for legal liability reasons.

Siegfried has since made a statement saying there is no such thing.

I know I did not lie in my attempt to describe the decisions made in the last meeting at around 4.30pm based on my notes about the legality of the Board issue.

No one tried to "stage a coop". We just tried to follow the "sketchy plan" but the goal posts keeps on moving.

Many people have asked for detailed Minutes from the meetings at Nabuur camp. None has been released.

When different people release their own notes...it get negated depending on "who shouts the loudest".

This is not the beginning of a democratic elected board. This is the "beginning of the same old Nabuur Agenda."

I know I did not lie about the interim board as a legal entity. I also know that I am not interested in "grabbing power or staging a coop". I am already a Non-executive Director and a Director of 3 other charities. This is not a good place of Trust to go on if "every discussion" has no Validity 3 weeks after it was "supposedly settled".

This cannot be a Board situation that is not Built on TRansparency, where attempts to be "transparent" gets shouted down and acccused of "evil". Where things can change just according to who is shouting the loudest.

All I can say is. In the short time I have committed to Nabuur, I have given 200% and I think deserve a bit more "honesty & transparency" out of those I work on the "Interim board with".

I did ask the following questions about issues of "transitioning from an Interim board to an elected International board".

By asking this to Siegfried at around 4.30pm on that Sunday:
a) Who will take the legal liability if Nabuur.com was sued in the event of Interim board transition and in the event of an elected Board?
b) If nabuur.com is willing to pay for the indemnity insurance that will protect those working on the Board, both Interim and later democratically elected from the expenses of being Sued if they assume the duty of a Board member?

I know what answer I got. Both was "Yes"

Hence that is the explanation of an "interim board" as a legal entity if all board members want to step down 1 June.

I think if there is NO TRust. There is no NABUUR.com. This place is about Trust...not games or avoidance.

I wont step down from the tasks because too many people have stepped down once they are faced with the kind of "lack of support" i am talking about.

Cecilia.W.Yu
B.A/llb(Media/law) MBA (Sustainable Management in new media)

Sorry tech guys, i have to agree with Cecilia here.. spending 10K to develop the website without any available expenditure plan or nominated external objective person to oversight/audit sounds like throwing money down a drain. Given the previous history of poorly explained and audited expenditure by Nabuur, the previous attempts at developing a new 'you beaut' website.. and all of this being done contrary to the advice that was provided at the time.. well.. put it this way, if it was my money I sure wouldn't be investing in Nabuur right now!! And spending money in such a non-transparent way seems to be to be just going back to the previous way of doing things on Nabuur.

I thought the camp was looking a democratising Nabuur, getting feedback before doing things, and not just spending money without checks and balances? I really really hope that Jennifer's somewhat pessimistic predictions that nothing will change do not come true, but this kind of spending certainly seems to point in that direction.

I have also heard from several people that they receive some rather nasty comments back if they oppose things that Nabuur does. I don't know if it's true but I have heard this from more than 3 sources. I'll let you all know right now that, to stand by my own principles that Nabuur needs to be an open and transparent organisation, I will post any emails relating to Nabuur that are sent to me. I will post them on the Nabuur website, and also sometimes in group emails and on fb, because fb and google etc, although global corporations, are part of life these days and, like the global corporation food & drink we consume (like Nestle?), clothes we wear, cars we drive etc (just about everything we consume), these networking tools can be utilised for common good and I think can be used, not ignored, by Nabuur.

I hope that this isn't taken as an attack either, because it's not. I just think it's time more of us stayed in Nabuur and started to say what needs to be said instead of not saying anything, leaving, and saying it later. And that's not an attack on people who have left, either, as they have their reasons and need to keep themselves safe.

:-)

Just to keep everyone updated. Niels from DeresIT.dk and A few of his friends who used to work for the website of BSkyB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Sky_Broadcasting to provide some Pro.Bono (free community service work) with the existing IT-nabuur team who are working on Drupal programming.

There were some heated debates about a plan to:

Pay 10,000 Euros for 8 developers to do the job in 4 short days as proposed by the Old Nabuur Paid Staff IT team. It is a well planned proposal that covers a lot of the basics and more.

*** But as a member of the Interim Board right now, I am recommending that Nabuur looks at other alternatives sourcing for the Man-hours it takes to do the job and also to take the process slower so that more and more Nabuur USERS can actually slowly over time "help" the IT team get to exactly what is "workable" and "funcational" for users.

This is also where an external Objective Info Techn. experienced Quality control Team is very useful to help us make sure that the strategy for spending the money is good and in the long run will Give USERS as much as what you ask for in terms of how you would see your Nabuur.com in the Future.

Many of the current IT-Nabuur teams are very committed to Nabuur so appreciates that in this current difficult economic climate, everyone is tightening their belts and many projects have to look to Volunteers to get as much of the work done in a cost effective way as possible.

Many IT contractors have had their wages cut by 1/3 or more, many are unemployed in Europe who have big hearts and are able to offer some of their times to help those in the Developing world less fortunate than they are!

I do not personally recommend paying Full corporate rates from 2008 (before the economic crisis) for 4 days of IT development, even though I am very aware that the IT teams are excellent at their job and deserves the full rate.

**BUT the world has changed and Nabuur.com is changing. It has been a difficult economic times for Many and Nabuur.com, I believe right now should reflect the "sentiments of its many global users"

ie. Do the best with "heart" and not just "throw money at it"..because sometimes that does not solve the problem in a very sustainable way.

There is no evidence to show that volunteer work would mean the quality is inferior or less fast..because All of us at Nabuur are working from this Philosophy of "volunteering and helping where help is needed in the best way possible"

This is the latest update to keep all Nabuur informed in the best way I know how to describe the situation.

I Hope Nabuur.com users will show their understanding and patience if we do not deliver a New website straight away but try our very best to develop one that is as close to what you ask for as possible given the MOney, Budget and free volunteers that we have.

Best wishes for all Nabuurs volunteers
Cecilia

Hi Diane and Every body

I think everythings is goes forwards and it is very nice to get Diane to be part of the group that can share the lacking area of Nabuur found. I hope Diane and all other participant can show their willing to improve on this site for most effective tool development for village in developing country.

Best regards

Kimsorn
Moung Russey LR
Cambodia

Dear Diane,

Welcome at Nabuur and thanks for your observations.
As Mary said, we are working on a plan to give input to the Nabuur Camp in the Netherlands.

Since I was repsonsible for marketing/communications a few years ago at Nabuur, I would love to team up with you to see what we can do to help adjusting the website to the new situation and to involve the right people.

The discussion is taking place at the Governance group and group chats are mentioned there as well.
I think its a good idea to meet there. There ia absolutely a challenge; also in communications and later on in recruiting new volunteers.

Gerdie

personally i face the same difficulties navigating around the site not knowing where to start or end as there are to much clicking ,by the way i got this information by luck i was navigating around,couldn't nabuur come up with a simpler way of addressing the problem.i have another pressing issue but i need to be corrected if am wrong don't you think that nabuur is a dull site as there is no much communication or discussions going around

--
muirunjui