Thu, 2006/10/05 - 09:55

Hallo everyone,

those of you who have been recently participating in our discussions will soon figure out what this action is about:

The search on possible ways for donors and sponsors to send money to Uganda for the Kyarumba Girls Education Fund showed that this cannot happen directly, meaning that there is no on-line existing mechanism at the moment for transactions with Uganda, except of the traditional banks, in which case fees are too high, taking away of the Fund a big part of the financial support.

It was therefore decided in the context of our former Action to set up an on-line account with www.moneybookers.com in the North, where money will be collected and periodically send to the Bwimaniro Women´s Club (BWC) bank account in Uganda.

Jessica, our Local Representative, expressed the wish that a legal entity is set up representing the BWC in the North and admnistering the account.

Therefore we need your support in order to:
1. Find out what a legal entity with www.moneybookers.com exactly involves
2. Decide how and where it can be set up
3. Who will participate
4. And eventually from it and open the account

The floor is open for your research and ideas!

All the best,
Eleftheria

Thu, 2006/10/12 - 12:02

I suggest to be the facilitator to the account in the north.(ELEFTHERIA SAKARLATOU).Everybody can participate regardly of the age,sex, so long he/she can contribute to the kyarumba in kind.The money can be collected in the north and send periodically to uganda.
thank contribution from NONO FRED

Thu, 2006/10/12 - 19:08

Hello Fred,
Thanks for joining this discussion, do you come from Northern Uganda, thanks for offering to be the faciliator for our Account.

We are suggesting volunteers like you from countries like USA, GERMANY, AUSTRALIA........ Located in that part of the world commonly called the North should help us open an account there.

Hope this is clear
Jessica

Thu, 2006/10/12 - 20:03

Eleftheria, by legal entity they seem to mean a corporation, foundation, LLC, or other organization with a legal founding document and registered administrators... for Kyarumba I would suggest creating a Foundation (not-for-profit, by definition) in the USA or one of the EU countries so that they can easily open the account with moneybookers.com.
The Foundation officers would need to open a local bank account in the country of registry, which is where moneybookers.com would make its deposits, and the money could then be wired to an Ugandan Bank account.

I also suggest the Foundation have it's own email account, so the officers' email is kept separate from the donations.

I hope this helps! :-)

Manuel

Sat, 2006/10/14 - 09:20

Hi naibours of Kyarumba,
As we are still talking on this isseu of the Bank Account if it is opened the we should advitise the account in the media papers and on radios that who soever like to contribute for the well being of this village can come along side and mo so on the web where by neibours from everywhere can particpate.

Thu, 2006/10/19 - 08:17

Dear Paul, Emanuel,

Thanks a lot for your ideas. I agree with you that we need to establish a foundation in any of the EU countries, US inclusive.

We would like to request volunteer neighbors of Kyarumba to take up this challange. we will be more that great full for their support.

I have recently talked to the nabuur staff about this issue and they have pledged support to a group of neighbors willing to take this up.

Thanks
Jessica

Thu, 2006/10/19 - 08:42

Dear All,

As we keep reflecting on this issue, I would like to bring back a relevant discussion that happened in an earlier thread about how to send money to BWC.

"This is just for reflection"

Thu, 2006/10/19 - 08:48

Dear All,

As we keep reflecting on this issue, I would like to bring back a relevant discussion that happened in an earlier thread about how to send money to BWC.

"This is just for reflection"
........................................................................................

legal framework ( By Dennis Argall Australia )

Hello again Annette - we have been missing you all this time! Thanks for this message also.

Here in Australia it is not too hard to find out the tax rules, as here:
http://ato.gov.au/nonprofit/

You may find similarly accessible information in Europe. I think that with such information in hand it may be easier to demonstrate 'feasibility' to people - that they will be engaged in doing something worthwhile and practicable.

In the US, Eric Cooperman
- facilitator at http://kiliba.nabuur.com
is working with a lawyer friend on an organisation there.

It would clearly be valuable to have a system with national bodies compatible and cooperative with each other. ...so that, for example, at some future time, projects a to z around the world could share a common web site and 'buyers' of contributions to projects could be taken to 'checkouts' in their own jurisdiction.

As to membership - where the members are - the appropriate Act here states:
"member, in relation to an association, means a person, body or organisation that is, under the rules of the association, a member of the association or, where the rules do not provide for membership of the association, a person, body or organisation that is a member of the committee of the association."
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/info
rce/act+143+1984+FIRST+0+N
It may be that non-national members would be OK - the person applying for registration and the 'public officer' would need to be resident in the state (of australia) where the application is made:
"8 Authority to apply for incorporation
(1) An association which is eligible to be incorporated under this Act may, by special resolution:
(a) authorise a person (not being a person under 18 years of age) who is resident in the State to incorporate the association under this Act."
The main purpose of the law is to rule out profit seeking organisations.

I have had a couple of people interested in this in the past. Maybe we need to seek from nabuur a place in a newsletter, to invite people involved in various places to work on this.

I appreciate that you have just arrived at this discussion, Annette, and I do not want to rush burdens at you. Your views are very valuable, and I respond warmly to that.

best wishes

Dennis

17 Jul 2006

Re: legal framework ( by Annette Pohlke
Germany )

Plans for a statute for a European Association have been under debate for a while, work on this started as early as the 1980s. The topic is hot again, as there has been a proposal by a commision to stop the whole project. And of course there are others who fight for the idea (there is a press release by a member of the European Parliament from June 20th on this available online, if you are interested: http://www.forumciviqueeuropeen.org/documents/CP_Navarro.pdf

). So it is safe to say that an association in Europe will be confined to a specific country and its laws.

I then did some internet research on international associations. It turns out they are usually made up of national associations.

Note that we will have another problem specific to a widely sperad online community. Even if an association may need only 5 people, it would probably be difficult enough to find 5 people from one country.

Now what we could do is look into various national laws to find the right place to set up an association, as many details may vary from country to country, for example if it is possible to set up an association with members residing in other countries or if the national laws will even allow any association, if the main activity of the association is not conducted in that country.

You brought up some problem cases that will affect a private person collecting funds. Similar problems can arise for an association. Like the question if or if not such collected funds would be considered income or under which conditions donations are tax deductible.

So we should maybe start by finding people who would be willing to handle this task, then find out, if or how it is possible to find a legal framework and what solution would work best.

Please note that I'm not a lawyer, in the end we may need one for this. I only have been involved with associations from being a member to helping found them. That's where my interest in and knowledge about these matters comes from. For those who have been longer with nabuur than I am: Is there a way to find people with special skills amongst the neighbors, like in this case a lawyer? The search option didn't really help....

17 Jul 2006

legal framework ( Dennis Argall Australia)
Hello and Annette and thanks for your wonderful contribution - the first you have written in Nabuur, I see.

I would add another thing, alongside the tax and trust issues - legal liability. Here is a useful document about the advantages of incorporation of an association in my state in Australia:
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/business/associa
tions/incorporation.html

An incorporated association here only needs five members, committee of two.

We all contribute personally to collections for local causes, without question, in our communities, but there are these questions (examples) if we go to the web to solicit funds:
- will government in the place where this is done call it income?
- what happens if that person dies?
- what happens if that person becomes bankrupt or has personal funds taken away for whatever legal reason (divorce, default, court fines, etc)?
- what happens if a donor becomes hostile about what may or may not have happened to the money, rightly or wrongly, sanely or insanely, and sues the person gathering funds?

I would really love to be a starter with such an organisation here, but am confronted by not being able to work as I would wish, day to day.

I guess my big question back to you, then, Annette, would be to ask if you were (theoretically) wishing to be the collecting person.... on what basis would you do this?

Can you, Eleftheria, others, advise whether an association can be legally set up Europe-wide these days, or still just within national boundaries.

I guess there is the other question there, too, in terms of day to day operation. I will be out of contact, unable to visit the local bank, from mid august to end of October. With an association, with a team, you can share the work and responsibilities on some roster. If you were the donor, would you be happy that I left your good money in a personal account in my own, for two months before passing it on?

best wishes and hoping you can continue to be with us!

Dennis

16 Jul 2006

legal framework and private accounts ( ANNET)
"It is not possible simply to accumulate funds from strangers to personal accounts in donor countries, there is a need for a legal framework for doing that."

Why would this not be possible?

I see two possible issues with a personal account:

- tax deductability
- trust

So the problem lies with the user: Would tax deductability or a legal framework and the trust this inspires be important enough for him to not make a donation, if money is collected only through a private account?

I am sure this is the case for some users, but for others easy usability - as the option to donate through PayPal - may be as important or more important. I know it would be important to me. The difference may often be if a person wants to donate a small or large amount, if he wants to donate just once or regular.

Using the option to donate through PayPal on the site itself, even through a private account, could encourage the spontanous generosity of people who visit the site and want to contribute, maybe with just 5 or 10 dollars or euros.

I am the administrator of a free online game (www.swcombine.com), we use donations through PayPal to a private account to collect the money to cover our server costs etc. This has been a huge success so far and it allowed us to stay online for 7 years now.

From this experience I also know how frustrating, time consuming and in the end futile the attempt to build a legal framework can be. National and international law is often not able to cover the needs of a global village, at least not yet.

I hope that nabuur will make good progress in finding a solution, but it may be advisable to settle for a second best solution (e.g. collecting money through a priavte account) for as long as this solution is not available.

Fri, 2006/10/20 - 00:08

Jessica:
Thank you for re-posting the thread... :-)
The organization or foundation that is created will probably be under a specific country's law, simply because only nations can recognize a group as a legal entity, and ensure that the officers meet the various requirements...

As for an individual's responsibility for the use of the money that may be received, as long as the organization follows its bylaws, there should be no problem. In fact, preparing good By-Laws and Articles of Constitution is often the most difficult task for the group that is organizing itself, because the lawyer can only ensure that the documents meet the legal requirements... only the members can ensure that the documents are logical and productive.

In the US (and probably in the EU) creating a Foundation and getting the non-profit tax exemption takes a few months and can cost a bit of money in fees. Other countries might have simpler tax codes, but I think that international transfers are strictly controlled by EU and USA rules so that terrorists can't send money across international borders. These legal requirements can be simpler to meet for an individual, but then the individual has a tax liability for the funds he/she may receive.

Another alternative is to have the Bwimaniro Women´s Club (BWC) authorize in its by-laws the creation of International BWC branches, which can have two of the Uganda officers in it's Board of Directors, and the rest from the country in which it is being founded (meeting the local minimum requirements). These branches would have the sole tasks of promoting fundraising and receiving funds for their direct transfer to Uganda... :-) Operational costs should be "zero", since the brances would be run by volunteers...

Now, the big task is finding a city with a few adult volunteers who wish to create the organization... ;-)

Manuel

Fri, 2006/10/20 - 15:04

Dear Manuel,

Thanks indeed for your contributions, they set our minds to appreciate the legal issues required by our dear neighbors willing to set up a branch or a foundation of the Bwimaniro Women's Club in the EU, USA, Australia.

We look forward to many ideas to help set our road smooth.

manuel , marianne, would you be knowing how many people are required to set up a foundation in the US ?

We look forward to hearing from all our neighbors
Jessica

Tue, 2006/10/31 - 20:08

To form a legal entity will require knowing the particular law governing in the particular country and see that the legal formalities can be met without any contingencies.

However Jessica's idea is brilliant. It is very important to choose carefully the people who will be part of this account in the North because the element of trust is very important here.

I would have a similar opinion to that of Manuel, forming a foundation but it is only people like him in the NORTH that can best understand how to deal with this issue.

I pray everything goes on well for Kyarumba Village.*

Mugwisa Moses Morris.

Tue, 2006/10/31 - 21:56

Ok... my experience is with New York State in the USA and with Venezuela... in both countries, at least 3 persons are needed to form a foundation and request not-for-profit status for tax purposes. This is the easy part, because foundations usually have special laws that they must follow - most specially if they are doing fundraising.

An alternative is to create the foundation in Uganda, and have it formally authorize a representative to open an account in the US or Europe, with a duly notarized document... the representative would open the account under the restrictions and limitations that the formal authorization (and maybe even the foundation's bylaws) establish... ;-) the bank opens the account and funds are disbursed or transferred in a transparent manner. Of course, a good accountant or lawyer can probably give you better advice... :-)

I hope this helps..... Manuel

Thu, 2006/11/02 - 08:07

Dear Manuel,

I like your suggestions but need more clarification. I do agree with you on the first suggestion. I am wondering if our neighbors authorized to open an account in the US can still use this authority to accept donations from people.

The idea behind forming a foundation is for people to build trust and confidence in this foundation and our work and will feel secure to donate to our fund with assurance that an external check system exists and will monitor effective use of funds down here in Uganda.

Secondly like you will notice in another thread, we would like to register the organisation on fundraising portals, or seek org to advertise on our web to earn donations to the Fund. I think legal status in any of the northern countries will be a requirement.

If we formed a foundation it would help us sort out as many issues as possible. However if members feel so, we can form a foundation here in Uganda but still have a branch of that foundation registered in ( for the beginning) the US.

Let me know what you think members

Thanks
Jessica

Thu, 2006/11/02 - 14:23

Dear Manuel,

thank you very much for your valuable postings.

Dear Jessica,

As far as I understand from the discussions, a foundation/committee representing the BWC in the North and admnistering the account can only be opened in one country. Jessica you suggested that this be done in the US. Manuel wrote that three persons are required for this.

Let us therefore check the feasibility of this.

Menawhile I had talked to Steven, who also udnerlined what we often discussed, the fact that Kyarumba needs to be registered as a charity organisation in Uganda. This is something you may wish to proceed with, regardless where the account will be opened so that we have a registered charity organisation with a Board controlling Funds and a representing Foundation in the North administering Funds till they are sent off to Kyarumba.

Best,
Eleftheria

Tue, 2006/11/07 - 19:58

Jessica and Eleftheria:

Your neighbors authorized to open an account in the USA could take the authorization to their local bank to verify if they could open an account that would simply receive the funds and transfer them directly to the foundation's account in Uganda. I have read some of the new regulations about funds transfers, and they are a bit confusing, so it's best to let the bank say if they can do it themselves.

This way, you might be able to avoid having to create the US foundation, and simply use the neighbor or neighbors as local contacts for the bank account that is used to receive your donations. Of course, those neighbors would have to declare the income, but probably will be able to avoid paying taxes on it since they never really received any monies.... Their accountant will be able to answer this question (every state in the USA has different laws about income).

I hope this helps! :-)