Hello neighbours,
I am not sure if I can join the chat. MSN-chat seems to me rather tiresome and long ( having read the last chat-report). Could Skype (using a headphone and microfone) be an alternative ? Talking goes faster than writing !
Besides, I believe that communication, also within this group, is "difficult". We all come from different cultural and intellectual backgrounds. Personally I feel torn apart by two different approaches:
on one hand you have the "hands-on" approach of a.o. Ken,
who says: let us buy 20 goats and get started (correct me, if I am wrong ,Ken)
otherwise, Tanja has done her utmost to make a SWOT-analysis and I admire her for her effort. But I believe that this kind of study goes well with small businesses and enterprises. But I wonder if this abstract approach also works in Congo DRC. Maybe we should limit ourselves to twenty(?) key-questions ?? But again,Tanja , you work constantly in poor countries, so correct me if I am wrong !
Best regards,
Nico
I typed a long and wonderful reply to your question and it mysteriously disappeared after I hit a wrong button. Here is my second try- can't guarantee it will be as wonderful as the first one :)
Here is what I said about the SWOT analysis in the beginning of the discussion :)
Quote:
Tanja wrote:
I don't feel that we need a formal SWOT analysis ( strengths and weaknesses- internal factors;opportunities and threats -external; what do you think?), but I would like to have a broader discussion on the perceived pros and cons for our project.
I am always vary wary of using ( and abusing) MBA tools in developing markets. SWOT is a wonderful tool, but it works the best for an assessment of existing businesses' strategic situation. In our case (in my personal opinion) we need a good risk analysis and a strong understanding of the answers of five basic questions: WHY? WHEN? WHO? WHAT? HOW? For example - Walungu is starting goat farming because the population desperately needs protein in their diets.The program will start at the moment the community collects X amount of money. The local families will take care of the goats.The goal is to provide X amount of milk to Y families. The bonus program and continuous education will ensure the success of the program. Something as simple as that (although everybody needs to agree on the five answers) will give us much more than the SWOT analysis.
However ( to defend the money I spent on business school) the SWOT analysis in general looks good on paper:) Depending on the targeted investors audience we may need to use some business school tools in the business plan to give it an extra shot of credibility. For now the SWOT analysis for our case (considering that Walungu's goat farm is not existing) is a stepping stone for our discussion- nothing more, nothing less. My goal is to have people saying- "wait, you missed the point", or-"this is completely irrelevant to our case!" (because none of us is an expert of goat farming in DR of the Congo, but together we can figure it out :)). I said it before- we have a simple, straight forward project- I don't want to over complicate it, just to get everybody on the same page :)
A question -my understanding is that the community will save money ( may be we need a weekly update on the amount raised?) and once the goal is reached there will be a bonus program in place, and after that (once we have some concrete results to boast about) we will present the concept to donors/investors... Did I get it right?
I would say that our approach is definitely a "hand-on" as you call it Nico :-).
Everyone - there are new info about the community and some new ideas that Raul has proposed.
The community is willing to contribute and save the money. However, they might not be able to start right away, but they plan to sell this season's crops in July, and that way to get money for the project, together with saving.
Guillaume will check the availability of pigmy goats in area, or if not, then some other good breed.
Raul proposed to start with a demonstration farm so that there would be the training and the introduction of the goat keeping at the same time.
That would be something like a farming school, where people would be trained in turns and we would try to invite an expert to teach the people. That would prepare them for July.
At the same time that would decrease the investment risk. And also would show us whether the goat keeping is the thing to do, before investing all the money from the harvest.
The investment shouldn't be big - 2 goats, a place for them and maybe some extra seed. Raul and I are happy to cover the expenses.
Guillaume should talk today already with the community about the idea and come up tomorrow (or some time soon) with their feedback.
After that, the next step would be to search for an expert/organization to go to Walungu and teach the people the goat keeping.
I also think we need risk assessment now, and maybe swot would be good after setting up the demo farm? What do you think?
Tanja, the answer is yes, plus of course the demo farm for the begining if we go with that.
Everyone, let me know your thoughts about the idea.
I was not able to get in touch with Mr Vatta- my emails simply hang in the Net for some reason- the error message is "Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:DNS Error: Timeout while contacting DNS servers". Hopefully the emails will go through soon. In the mean time - Sonja, would you ask your friend in South Africa to check for the manual- may be we can use it as a back up plan to train the people instead of bringing a volunteer to Walungu.The full name is: Goatkeepers' Animal Health Care Manual, edited by you, Abbot, M.A., de Villiers, J.F., Gumede, S.A.,Harrison, L.J.S., Krecek, R.C., Letty, B.A., Mapeyi, N., and Pearson, R.A., published by Onderspepoort Veterinary Institute in Pietermaritzburg (South Africa) in 2006.
I will look for contact information for the Veterinary institute to ask them too. Prof Gipson mentioned a project with the National University of Rwanda in Butare - Guillaume, is Butare close to Walungu? If so- this is another possible venue for training ( although I am not sure how freely people can move between the two countries).
Goodmorning all,
I have contacted the organization that I mentionned a couple of days ago, Agriterra. They assist peasants worldwide with knowledge and funding. Their spokeswoman told me that our project might have a better chance to be supported if Guillaume (ASDI) would become a member of Agriterra's local partner, FOPAC-SK. Do you know this organization, Guillaume?
Regards,
Nico
Nico - thanks for contacting the organization. Maybe they could help.
Everyone - Guillaume talked to the community and they are eager to start with demo farm. Guillaume found out that pigmy goats are available in North Kivu and heard that their price is 60$ plus transport costs - which would be around 80$ for a goat. But he'll check the info.
The demo farm should start as soon as we collect info about the prices and decide about the details like the wire for fencing and shed, and all other details. Also, we need to find someone to train them or at least to provide good training material.
Tanja - It would be best if Guillaume answers the question about the crops (as far as I know it's cassava, taro, potato...) and about vaccination.
Ken - do you think they should start with pigmy goats, having in mind the instable situation there - I'm a bit concerned that such goats might be a kind of attraction in area and thus a target for looting and killing... Should we advise them to start with some cheaper breeds or you think pigmy goats would be good and no big risks would be involved?
What do you think Guillaume?
The pigmy goats are probably the best choice because when they sell the offspring the selling price is higher. They are better adapted than other breeds.
If the farm is permanent, use a tree for permanent fencing. There is a variety of trees for that. Goats cannot go through it after 1-2 years.
Do you have some more advise in the set p of the demo farm?.
- You mention trees can be used as permanent fencing. What type of trees? What could they used while thee tress grow to keep the goats contained?
- In terms of feeding, what do you recommend so they can keep costs low while still producing a relatively good amount of milk?. I read goats are a bit fuzzy in terms of what they eat.
- For the housing of the goats, what would you recommend?
- Since we are going to start with one demo farm and we will get 20 families to learn from it while the money of the harvest is available to buy more animals, what sort of delivery method do you recommend? We were thinking to have turns by family to learn from the farm and then to have some sessions when they could share their learnings. Do you know of a training partner in DRC that could help us also with the training?
Fencing: Ask any farmer and he will tell them. The name is different in every country.
Goats will eat a lot of forages that cows will not eat. Even some so called weeds but what is best to feed them there I do not know. Are there any agriculture agents there? There are a number of good legumes in every country as well as non-legume forages.
The demo farm is going to have to have a full-time teacher to set it up and teach. This is a big undertaking. Rather than one family at a time, I would bring in the farmers for workshops at times when they are not busy on their own farms.
Thanks Ken. Do you maybe have aqny other advise about what we should pay attention to about the demo farm?
Tanja, my friend from South Africa will ask someone there to buy the book and send it to Guillaume. Did you maybe check how much approximately would it cost?
Last night I updated a website that is on my ag dvd. It has info on goats, living fences, etc. Go to: www.cd3wd.com
Here is how the use of mucuna, etc and 0-till spread though Southern Mexico and Central America. I suggest that someone go to the village and call a meeting of farmers. There will be 2-3 who are very progressive and innovative. Maybe someone knows who they are without a meeting? Get them to do it and it will spread from there among interested farmers.
Or someone in the village takes a small plot, 2 meters by several meters long, and demonstrates it for the villagers.
Let me first thank you for yesterday's chat. It is true that it should have been better organized, somehow I believed that I made it clear that the chat was for Tanja's questions and that the others would socialize more or less and also ask few questions if they have some. Apparently that was only what I thought :-P I also did not prepare the plan B in the case Tanja is late or does not appear :). I appologize for that, and I promise to work on my communication and organizational skills until next time :hammer:
Also, when prepairing agenda I would be happy to hear in advance the topics you would like to cover, and I personally think we shouldn't cover more than 2, max 3 topics (unless they are rather small). What do you think?
I believe we have had good results anyway, and I'll post soon both the chat and the summary.
I can use skype after 4pm GMT (Guillaume is also available for skype at that time), so if everyone can fit that it would be good. By now the problem was with Raul's availability at that time, but I still don't know how he will fit that schedule once he's back in Sydney.
In addition to the breeds we discussed during the chat(crossbreds of Toggenburg or Anglo-Nubian) I found more info about another one that may work for us if it's available in the region-LaManchas- naturally very healthy and hardy, which is nice for first time goat owners.LaManchas have a high butterfat in their milk and their milk is delicious and also very good for cheese making- good point if we will be looking to diversify the dairy products.Here is a link with pictures of different breeds and the main differences between them. http://fiascofarm.com/goats/breeds.htm
Guillaume, have you seen any of these breeds in your area?
I am curious to learn more about the daily diet of the people in Walungu. You said that the average calories intake is about 1600.I did not notice if you mentioned the source of the calories. Can you describe the average meals per day - breakfast, lunch, dinner?
Raul,
Regarding your suggestion to crossbreed - there is an existing breed -Kinder- a small duel propose breed (both for dairy and meat) developed in the US by crossing Nubians with Pygmies.Is this something you have in mind?
About the analysis- I will put my questions on hold for now. I reread the online postings and I realized that the majority of the team wants to start with the demo farm and to figure out the rest when the time comes.
Hello neighbours,
I am not sure if I can join the chat. MSN-chat seems to me rather tiresome and long ( having read the last chat-report). Could Skype (using a headphone and microfone) be an alternative ? Talking goes faster than writing !
Besides, I believe that communication, also within this group, is "difficult". We all come from different cultural and intellectual backgrounds. Personally I feel torn apart by two different approaches:
on one hand you have the "hands-on" approach of a.o. Ken,
who says: let us buy 20 goats and get started (correct me, if I am wrong ,Ken)
otherwise, Tanja has done her utmost to make a SWOT-analysis and I admire her for her effort. But I believe that this kind of study goes well with small businesses and enterprises. But I wonder if this abstract approach also works in Congo DRC. Maybe we should limit ourselves to twenty(?) key-questions ?? But again,Tanja , you work constantly in poor countries, so correct me if I am wrong !
Best regards,
Nico
Hi Nico,
I typed a long and wonderful reply to your question and it mysteriously disappeared after I hit a wrong button. Here is my second try- can't guarantee it will be as wonderful as the first one :)
Here is what I said about the SWOT analysis in the beginning of the discussion :)
I am always vary wary of using ( and abusing) MBA tools in developing markets. SWOT is a wonderful tool, but it works the best for an assessment of existing businesses' strategic situation. In our case (in my personal opinion) we need a good risk analysis and a strong understanding of the answers of five basic questions: WHY? WHEN? WHO? WHAT? HOW? For example - Walungu is starting goat farming because the population desperately needs protein in their diets.The program will start at the moment the community collects X amount of money. The local families will take care of the goats.The goal is to provide X amount of milk to Y families. The bonus program and continuous education will ensure the success of the program. Something as simple as that (although everybody needs to agree on the five answers) will give us much more than the SWOT analysis.
However ( to defend the money I spent on business school) the SWOT analysis in general looks good on paper:) Depending on the targeted investors audience we may need to use some business school tools in the business plan to give it an extra shot of credibility. For now the SWOT analysis for our case (considering that Walungu's goat farm is not existing) is a stepping stone for our discussion- nothing more, nothing less. My goal is to have people saying- "wait, you missed the point", or-"this is completely irrelevant to our case!" (because none of us is an expert of goat farming in DR of the Congo, but together we can figure it out :)). I said it before- we have a simple, straight forward project- I don't want to over complicate it, just to get everybody on the same page :)
A question -my understanding is that the community will save money ( may be we need a weekly update on the amount raised?) and once the goal is reached there will be a bonus program in place, and after that (once we have some concrete results to boast about) we will present the concept to donors/investors... Did I get it right?
Best,
Tanja
Hi everyone,
I would say that our approach is definitely a "hand-on" as you call it Nico :-).
Everyone - there are new info about the community and some new ideas that Raul has proposed.
The community is willing to contribute and save the money. However, they might not be able to start right away, but they plan to sell this season's crops in July, and that way to get money for the project, together with saving.
Guillaume will check the availability of pigmy goats in area, or if not, then some other good breed.
Raul proposed to start with a demonstration farm so that there would be the training and the introduction of the goat keeping at the same time.
That would be something like a farming school, where people would be trained in turns and we would try to invite an expert to teach the people. That would prepare them for July.
At the same time that would decrease the investment risk. And also would show us whether the goat keeping is the thing to do, before investing all the money from the harvest.
The investment shouldn't be big - 2 goats, a place for them and maybe some extra seed. Raul and I are happy to cover the expenses.
Guillaume should talk today already with the community about the idea and come up tomorrow (or some time soon) with their feedback.
After that, the next step would be to search for an expert/organization to go to Walungu and teach the people the goat keeping.
I also think we need risk assessment now, and maybe swot would be good after setting up the demo farm? What do you think?
Tanja, the answer is yes, plus of course the demo farm for the begining if we go with that.
Everyone, let me know your thoughts about the idea.
Take care,
Sonja
Great news, Sonja!
I was not able to get in touch with Mr Vatta- my emails simply hang in the Net for some reason- the error message is "Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:DNS Error: Timeout while contacting DNS servers". Hopefully the emails will go through soon. In the mean time - Sonja, would you ask your friend in South Africa to check for the manual- may be we can use it as a back up plan to train the people instead of bringing a volunteer to Walungu.The full name is: Goatkeepers' Animal Health Care Manual, edited by you, Abbot, M.A., de Villiers, J.F., Gumede, S.A.,Harrison, L.J.S., Krecek, R.C., Letty, B.A., Mapeyi, N., and Pearson, R.A., published by Onderspepoort Veterinary Institute in Pietermaritzburg (South Africa) in 2006.
I will look for contact information for the Veterinary institute to ask them too. Prof Gipson mentioned a project with the National University of Rwanda in Butare - Guillaume, is Butare close to Walungu? If so- this is another possible venue for training ( although I am not sure how freely people can move between the two countries).
Goodmorning all,
I have contacted the organization that I mentionned a couple of days ago, Agriterra. They assist peasants worldwide with knowledge and funding. Their spokeswoman told me that our project might have a better chance to be supported if Guillaume (ASDI) would become a member of Agriterra's local partner, FOPAC-SK. Do you know this organization, Guillaume?
Regards,
Nico
Hi everyone,
Nico - thanks for contacting the organization. Maybe they could help.
Everyone - Guillaume talked to the community and they are eager to start with demo farm. Guillaume found out that pigmy goats are available in North Kivu and heard that their price is 60$ plus transport costs - which would be around 80$ for a goat. But he'll check the info.
The demo farm should start as soon as we collect info about the prices and decide about the details like the wire for fencing and shed, and all other details. Also, we need to find someone to train them or at least to provide good training material.
Tanja - It would be best if Guillaume answers the question about the crops (as far as I know it's cassava, taro, potato...) and about vaccination.
Ken - do you think they should start with pigmy goats, having in mind the instable situation there - I'm a bit concerned that such goats might be a kind of attraction in area and thus a target for looting and killing... Should we advise them to start with some cheaper breeds or you think pigmy goats would be good and no big risks would be involved?
What do you think Guillaume?
Looking forward to hearing from you guys.
Sonja
The pigmy goats are probably the best choice because when they sell the offspring the selling price is higher. They are better adapted than other breeds.
If the farm is permanent, use a tree for permanent fencing. There is a variety of trees for that. Goats cannot go through it after 1-2 years.
Hi Ken,
Do you have some more advise in the set p of the demo farm?.
- You mention trees can be used as permanent fencing. What type of trees? What could they used while thee tress grow to keep the goats contained?
- In terms of feeding, what do you recommend so they can keep costs low while still producing a relatively good amount of milk?. I read goats are a bit fuzzy in terms of what they eat.
- For the housing of the goats, what would you recommend?
- Since we are going to start with one demo farm and we will get 20 families to learn from it while the money of the harvest is available to buy more animals, what sort of delivery method do you recommend? We were thinking to have turns by family to learn from the farm and then to have some sessions when they could share their learnings. Do you know of a training partner in DRC that could help us also with the training?
Many thanks for any info Ken,
Regards,
Raul
Fencing: Ask any farmer and he will tell them. The name is different in every country.
Goats will eat a lot of forages that cows will not eat. Even some so called weeds but what is best to feed them there I do not know. Are there any agriculture agents there? There are a number of good legumes in every country as well as non-legume forages.
The demo farm is going to have to have a full-time teacher to set it up and teach. This is a big undertaking. Rather than one family at a time, I would bring in the farmers for workshops at times when they are not busy on their own farms.
Thanks Ken. Do you maybe have aqny other advise about what we should pay attention to about the demo farm?
Tanja, my friend from South Africa will ask someone there to buy the book and send it to Guillaume. Did you maybe check how much approximately would it cost?
Best,
Sonja
Last night I updated a website that is on my ag dvd. It has info on goats, living fences, etc. Go to: www.cd3wd.com
Here is how the use of mucuna, etc and 0-till spread though Southern Mexico and Central America. I suggest that someone go to the village and call a meeting of farmers. There will be 2-3 who are very progressive and innovative. Maybe someone knows who they are without a meeting? Get them to do it and it will spread from there among interested farmers.
Or someone in the village takes a small plot, 2 meters by several meters long, and demonstrates it for the villagers.
Hello again to everyone,
Let me first thank you for yesterday's chat. It is true that it should have been better organized, somehow I believed that I made it clear that the chat was for Tanja's questions and that the others would socialize more or less and also ask few questions if they have some. Apparently that was only what I thought :-P I also did not prepare the plan B in the case Tanja is late or does not appear :). I appologize for that, and I promise to work on my communication and organizational skills until next time :hammer:
Also, when prepairing agenda I would be happy to hear in advance the topics you would like to cover, and I personally think we shouldn't cover more than 2, max 3 topics (unless they are rather small). What do you think?
I believe we have had good results anyway, and I'll post soon both the chat and the summary.
I can use skype after 4pm GMT (Guillaume is also available for skype at that time), so if everyone can fit that it would be good. By now the problem was with Raul's availability at that time, but I still don't know how he will fit that schedule once he's back in Sydney.
Take care
Sonja
In addition to the breeds we discussed during the chat(crossbreds of Toggenburg or Anglo-Nubian) I found more info about another one that may work for us if it's available in the region-LaManchas- naturally very healthy and hardy, which is nice for first time goat owners.LaManchas have a high butterfat in their milk and their milk is delicious and also very good for cheese making- good point if we will be looking to diversify the dairy products.Here is a link with pictures of different breeds and the main differences between them.
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/breeds.htm
Guillaume, have you seen any of these breeds in your area?
We could have one more chat next week or even skype if Guillaume has access and then we will see what time we can find once I am back in Sydney.
Raul
Guillaume,
I am curious to learn more about the daily diet of the people in Walungu. You said that the average calories intake is about 1600.I did not notice if you mentioned the source of the calories. Can you describe the average meals per day - breakfast, lunch, dinner?
Raul,
Regarding your suggestion to crossbreed - there is an existing breed -Kinder- a small duel propose breed (both for dairy and meat) developed in the US by crossing Nubians with Pygmies.Is this something you have in mind?
About the analysis- I will put my questions on hold for now. I reread the online postings and I realized that the majority of the team wants to start with the demo farm and to figure out the rest when the time comes.
Have a good day :)
Tanja