Hi Sonja,I've told about the mean of calorie intake by one pers and per day that's less than 1600 kcal according to some researcehes carried by NGO's.About the source,the maine source is hydrocarbone source.sweet potato,taro etc.

About to contact kanani in Butare,I'l contact him as soon as his adresse is available.

Relevant the access to woodsy pasture,they could exist around the village and may the community can organise and find some one to take the goat to pasture and within the day.I would like to hear Raoul about this.

About basic care-hoof trimming-every 6-8 weeks,I doupt to have some one who knows.

Raoul has worries about the owner of goat once the demo is over.we can let community to decide to whom to own and others to handle in case of needs.That's can work?

I here by thanks all participant in the chat of yesterday .

Regards

Guillaume

Hi Guillaume,

I would prefer to bring the food to the goats and not to take them to pasture to avoid diseases and to be able to be more selective with the feedings to get more milk.

Ken: COuld you advise in good feeding for the goats?

Guillaume: Can you ask the community how they think the owner of the goat should be decided after the training is finish? That should be around the time the harvest is ready and there is more money to buy more goats

I am not sure about the crossbreeding, not my speciality, I think we might need to look for someone with that speciality. DO you know something about it Ken?

Raul

Goodmorning,
First I would like to compliment my fellow neighbours in this virtual village. I have been involved in three other Nabuur villages before, and in those villages there were
only a couple of people really involved and the other neighbours were silent. In Walungu we have a small, but vivid community, where everybody is participating. Let's keep it up.
I have doubts about the word "demo" farm. In my understanding when you hear about a demonstration farm, you expect well-trained and experienced farmers. That will not be possible in Walungu. And if we persist in naming it demo farm, what will we show the curious visitors ?
Have a nice day,
Nico

Hi Nico,

Can you suggest some other name? something like "training farm" or something like that? Any ideas? :)

Best,
Sonja

Guillaume says:
did you see my post ing table
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Hi Nico
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Yes, and thank you for that
Nico says:
Hi Sonja and Raul
Guillaume says:
hi nico
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Hope you are fine today
Nico says:
Hello Guillaume
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Raul is a bit busy, but hope he'll join us soon
Guillaume says:
Hello Nico
Guillaume says:
ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and Tanja is still not here
Sonja Marjanovic says:
but she'll come soon I guess
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Nico how do you feel about walungu project so far?
Nico says:
Sorry, I was busy to check out how chatting is working. I think the project is fine, but needs a concrete plan.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
well yes, we are trying to bring decisions about what exactly to do
Sonja Marjanovic says:
what is the best for the community
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and doing research to find out the best solutions
Nico says:
Guillaume, what are your dreams about this project? Where will we in a year ?
Guillaume says:
i think that we made a big step
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok?
Guillaume says:
discussion had provided more highlight
Nico says:
Shall we wait for the others to join the conversation?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
well, if you like we can chat a bit until waiting, or we can just wait what do you say to introduce each others a bit, some details that the others don't know?

Raul Alberto Caceres is already part of this conversation.

Raul Alberto Caceres has been added to the conversation.

Nico says:
Hi Raul
Guillaume says:
let nico to introduce mih
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Bonjour a tous
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Hi Nico
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Guillaume
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Sonja
Sonja Marjanovic says:
bonjour
Guillaume says:
salut Raoul
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Ca va?
Guillaume says:
Cool
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Cool
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
So we are waiting for Tanja only?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
we just wanted to fnd out a bit more about ach others
Sonja Marjanovic says:
yes, Tanja is missing
Sonja Marjanovic says:
the central figure of the chat
Sonja Marjanovic says:
So, Nico, you live with your wife and travel alot?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:

Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I like traveling a lot
Sonja Marjanovic says:
who doesn't
Nico says:
Raul, I passed Amersfoort today with the train. I suppose you work there. Maybe we can have a coffee, one day.
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
yes sure. I will be here until next week only
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
SO it might need to be before Thirsday next week
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Maybe you can come and have a coffee in the office and meet some of the staff
Nico says:
O.K. We will try to set up a meeting. Besides, don't we need an agenda for this conversation?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Yes, We usally set uo an agenda
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
usually
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Sonja, would you like to tell us the agenda
Nico says:
1. Our experiences with this project so far.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Well, as I told you, Tanja should come up with her questions, and to discuss about our feelings and ideas about the project. Thank you Nico
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
We wanted to discuss some issues with the Pygmy goats, breeding strategy, demo farm
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
On top of anyting else you guys feel we should discuss
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Sonja, did Tanja leave you a phone number?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
nope
Sonja Marjanovic says:
maybe she got confused about time
Sonja Marjanovic says:
so maybe we could discuss a bit the demo farm and how we feel about it, what should and could be done?
Guillaume says:
can us send her a texto
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Nico is there anything you would like to discuss?
Nico says:
I think the demo farm is not such a good idea, because you need well trained teachets and material. I think a small shop,run by the locals might be a better idea. Guillaume?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
What kind of shops?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
A small shop Nico? what do you eman by a small shop?
Guillaume says:
a small shop
Nico says:
F.e. in India small farmers started a shop in a cooperative model, where they sold gasolin, soap, fertiliser, seeds etc. and it worked out very well.
Guillaume says:
in this case who will set up kind shop?
Nico says:
If your group ASDI thinks this is a good idea, you can make up a business-plan and think about what you can sell.
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Nico, I have a few concerns in regards to setting up a shop
Nico says:
Tell me.
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
we started the project based in the ideas of the community that wanted to start a revolving fund. So we are here to support the idea they have
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Also, a shop would require a much higher investment that the type of project we are looking into now
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
And we want to support the community setting up a project that does nt work around a proposal to ask for funds
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
There are just too many projects around Nabuur that have worked around proposals with no actions in the communitites and that have failed
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
SO we thought it could be a good idea to start with soemthing with a lower investment
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
And were the community could also invest
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
After the harvest
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
So we do not have to rely on whether we find a funder
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
We could approach funders but after we get some ther things happenign in the field
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Guillaume has also mentioned
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
They are all farmers, and they have expereince doing that
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
So that would also make things easier on that side
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Nico, why do you think the demo farm would not be a good idea and a small shop be a better one?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I really think it shouldn’t be such aproblem to train the people and to start with a small farm with 2 goats
Nico says:
I go along with the farm. But. Guillaume, what kind of information do you need to make a good plan ?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
for the shop they would probably have to buy something first and then to sell it, right? and they have little experience in trade in general as far as I know. Guillaume?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Sorry, just saw a message from Tanja
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Hi Raul,

I can't link my laptop to the office network ( I tried to release and renew the IP) .The system administrator is out for today and I don't have MSN on the office computer.Do you know any tricks? I only know to hit the repair option or use the ipconfig command...

Tanja
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Just sent her a couple of tricks to see if she can join us soon
Guillaume says:
community is in need to rear their live stock,to be capable to produce and sell in the future to over come their probleme,malnutrtion defaulters cases
Guillaume says:
i think the project is a livelihood sustainable project
Guillaume says:
to make a good plan i think that we do make a proposal
Guillaume says:
to know the goal
Guillaume says:
objectif and achievement in the way to mesure our implementation
Guillaume says:
Nico is it sufficient?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Which is in a way what we are working on at the moment. Defininng the details of how to start with the demo farm and the next stages based on the decisions we can make with Guillaume in terms of breeds and other requirements
Nico says:
But I mean, could not you visit another NGO with a lot of practice and ask them how to write a proposal ? Or Raul do you have a good example of a business plan in your PC ?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I uploaded some examples on Walungu website
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
We have posted a couple of plans
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and Guillaume will try to visit FONDAMU or some other org. in neghbourhood
Sonja Marjanovic says:
have you seen the examples Nico?
Guillaume says:
I wrote to FONDAMU still waiting for the answer
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
BUt I think it is important that we try to define the elements we are looking to define to go ahead defining the plan. As Ken says, sometimes we just spend too much time trying to create plans and no action so once we make the decisions we should start having some actions. What do you guys think?
Guillaume says:
their office is in kinshasa I'l travel to kinshasa the april,26 th,i guess I'l meet them any way
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I feel that the proposal is mostly for the funding purposes, but for taking acions on site I don't think we need to write too much. but we do need to do alot of research and contact organizations...
Sonja Marjanovic says:
to be able to bring right decisions
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Guys, I have Tanja in a different window so I think we might need to change windows
Guillaume says:
i think before contacting organisation,we do have some thing planned
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Or Sonja, add her to your friends list
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
And invite her to this window
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
FOr some reason I cannot invite more people to the other window
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I can't add her.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I'll save this chat and then we can pass to another window. what do you say?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I can't add more people to teh chat where I have here
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I think it is a sync issue wth yahoo - hotmai;
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I though tyou could mix people from both but apparently no
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Not sure what to do with that
Sonja Marjanovic says:
It just doesn't allow me to add her. it says that the contact is not found
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I am asking her to try webmessenger to see if that works
Nico says:
Maybe we can set up another meeting. But I think it is absolutely necessary that we have a strict agenda, beforehand.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I tried that in my office, but it doesn't allow me neither to download nor to sign in, so that might be the problem with her as well
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I have her online
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
IN anoyhe window
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I am chatting with her
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Strange
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
She is trying webmessenger now
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I am now trying with gmail-hotmail sync to se if that works
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
What a pity we ahve not been able to bring her online
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
with all of us together
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Nico, if you would like to have another chat soon, could you write me some things that you would like to discuss so I can add that. For this time I mostly planned that Tanja asks questions for her analysis and if anyone else have more questions for Guillaume... I didn't plan to go much futher because it would take very long time
Sonja Marjanovic says:
So tanja won't make it?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
She is trying to get into gmail with webmessenger
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
She might still make it
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Let's wait a bit more to see of we get it working
Sonja Marjanovic says:
so maybe in the meantime we could talk a little bit more about the plan and the actions to be taken both by the community and the neighbours?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
sure
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Nico how do you feel about that?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
shall we continue about the plan?
Nico says:
Well, this is my first chat and I think it is pretty confusing. I am more then willing to make a real agenda for the next chat.Meanwhile I have contacted an training centre for farmers in Holland. And maybe they are willing to cooperate with us.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
???? good! tell us more about it
Guillaume says:

Raul Alberto Caceres says:

Nico says:
Well, it is called PTC and they train farmers from the Third World. People from Congo, Uganda, etc come here for three months with a scholarship and learn how to farm.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and do they have to apply for the scholarship?
Nico says:
Would you like to come to Holland, Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
willingly but three months is more
Guillaume says:
may all volunteer one or two
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
three month sis too much Guillaume?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Maybe it would be better to send someone with experience in livestock field, if there is an opportunity
Nico says:
I am not sure. I will meet with one of the centre, problably in a week.
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
ah ok, so better 1 or 2 months
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
And do they also send people to these countries Nico?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Or maybe have someone locally that has already been trained
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
IN that way we can send someone to train all the community
Guillaume says:
the training of trainer sounds ok
Nico says:
No, they think about a regional centre in East Africa and also they sent out experts/teachers to train the people in farming.
Guillaume says:
because the trained person can moove iven in differents areas;do you find this idea ok?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
how do you mean in different areas?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
you mean geographicaly?
Guillaume says:
we can too organise training in the country where there is a need*
Nico says:
I saw pictures of vaccinating cows in Walungu. Don't you have experts in the neighbourhood?
Guillaume says:
that was held by FAO
Guillaume says:
expert from eastern africa

Tanja has been added to the conversation.

Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Hi Tanja
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Hi guys, we have Tanja here now
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Tanja are you there?
Guillaume says:
finaly
Tanja says:
hello
Sonja Marjanovic says:
hey Tanja
Tanja says:
I am sorry
Sonja Marjanovic says:
so happy to see you!
Sonja Marjanovic says:
don't worry
Nico says:
Well, there you are ! Could you not approach the FAO people to help out. Again, everything depends on the contacts we have worldwide. I am willing to contact people of FAO in Rome/Italy.
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
So, Tanja, how are you?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I think you have a few questions for us. Is that right?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
great Nico, ask them if they could help in DRC
Sonja Marjanovic says:
sorry Tanja, just answering the Nico's message
Sonja Marjanovic says:
this is your chat, so feel free to ask
Guillaume says:
they have been running a project with the provincial ministry in south kivu
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Tanja are you still there?
Nico says:
Maybe Sonja, you could resume for Tanja what we have discussed so far?
Tanja says:
still here
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok, good suggestion
Sonja Marjanovic says:
we have been talking about the project and how we feel about it
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Nico has proposed that the community opens a shop instead of livestock project
Sonja Marjanovic says:
but Guillaume and Raul think there is better possiblity to succedd with the livestock project
Tanja says:
what type of inventory?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Then we discussed a bit about the plan of the project and the actions that should be taken
Nico says:
Not instead of livestock, but besides, to make a quick profit.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
yes, sorry
Tanja says:
do we have customers?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
that's right
Sonja Marjanovic says:
for the beginning
Sonja Marjanovic says:
he thought that they could come up with some ideas what they could sell
Nico says:
With the local population as customer.
Tanja says:
does the local population have enough income to spend?
Nico says:
But, I think it is better for now to limit ourselves to the livestock. Do you, Tanja, have any direct questions for us ?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I guess they mainly buy food. Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
at this time no
Guillaume says:
yes actually
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and Nico was also saying about some organizations he contacted or is going to contact
Guillaume says:
troubly shooting between school fees and health fees and food
Tanja says:
what do you think is the main hrlde now for the project
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Guys, DRC has the lowest GDP per capita in the world with 300USD a year so you can imagine the shopping power is not exactly the best surrently
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
So the livestock project could help them generate food and grow comining with farming
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I think it would be best to sell food
Tanja says:
I agree
Nico says:
Everybody has to eat and have a cellphone...
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
ANd start developing the local economy as they start getting more things
Sonja Marjanovic says:
once they have it for themselves
Guillaume says:
they are eating low than 1600 kcal/day/pers
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
YOu have to also bring up the motivational pyramid. Until basic needs are not covered, there is usually not time to think about othert things
Tanja says:
i expected less than 1600
Guillaume says:
less than
Tanja says:
did you receive the seeds?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
And how those 1600 Kcal be divided Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
nor yet
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Meat, vegetables, fruits?
Nico says:
Guillaume, suppose this group would be willing to donate 5 goats. How would you go from there and how could we control that the money is well spend ?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
The seeds should be arriving by the end of the month
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Guys, I don't think we all should donate the goats at once
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Guys, do you feel we should try to cover Tanja's questions? I am not sure how often she can come online
Sonja Marjanovic says:
It would be great if evryon is ready to hepl, but not all at once and at the beginning. what do you guys think?
Guillaume says:
we work in collaboration with catholic church and protestant to withness
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Guillaume, can you tell us what you think would be the biggest challenge for this project?
Tanja says:
Guillaume, do you have any people with experience that can be responsible for the demo farm?
Guillaume says:
the big challenge for this project could be the araisen war and push again people in the bush
Tanja says:
but we can not control that
Nico says:
Guillaume, could you approach some important people from the church and NGO's to become member of the board?
Guillaume says:
but at this time war is not for planning as far as gouvernement is seting institutions
Tanja says:
what is the biggest challenge that we can control and overcome
Guillaume says:
second is a lack of training
Guillaume says:
tersio could be the lack of genitor and others material to set up project
Nico says:
I have contacted also the Belgian NGO "Aid Walungu" and they work closely together with Regroupement Force Rurale. Do you know them?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Sorry Guillaiume, lack of what? What is genitor?
Guillaume says:
Raoul what's mean geniteur in english
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Tu veut dire les geniteurs pour le chevres?
Guillaume says:
oui
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
He means the reproductive animals to start the project
Tanja says:
Help me out to understand better the situation in Walungu- do you have anybody with any experience raising goats?
Tanja says:
ok, should we start the project with a male and a female goat
Nico says:
Guys, I am sorry. I have to move on to other things. I hope this chat works out well.
Tanja says:
have a good evening Nico, sorry I was so late
Nico says:
Take care. Bye. Nico
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Thanks for coming Nico

Nico has left the conversation.

Raul Alberto Caceres says:
I will need to leave in 10 minutes also
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Maybe we can continue working in Tanja's questions
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
?
Tanja says:
ok
Tanja says:
Who is assuming "ownership" of the demonstration farm?
Tanja says:
Anybody with any experience on the ground?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
WOuld that need to be responded by Guillaume only?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Or can we also say more of what we have seen?
Guillaume says:
at this time farm demo has not start
Tanja says:
anybody
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
So basically, the information we have
Tanja says:
but when it does?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Is that maybe we cna get some volunteers that are on the site involved in the area
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
But goats farming is a new technology for the community of Walungu
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
We want to start with the demo farm because we feel is a way to get them to learn and to get everyone to buy teh idea also
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
It has also worked in simialr cases
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
in other countries
Tanja says:
i dont question that
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
It is similar to other things I have tried with success in other communities
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
And we are still to decide the ownership of the priject
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
of the demo far
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
farm
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
We are a bit confused about that
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
So we needed to ask Guillaume today about that
Tanja says:
ok
Tanja says:
when do we want to start?
Guillaume says:
about what farm demo?
Tanja says:
does anybody have experience with cows
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Guillaume, how do you think we should work for the owners of the goats, the ones for the demo farm
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
CAn the group own the goats
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
And then we can decide who gets them
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Would that work?
Tanja says:
how many people will be in a group?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
The initial group is 20 people
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
or the heads of 20 families
Tanja says:
who will decide who gets the milk?
Guillaume says:
the head of 20 famillies
Sonja Marjanovic says:
maybe they could get the milk in turns as well. will that work?
Tanja says:
probably depends on them
Guillaume says:
yes depends on them
Tanja says:
how well the group works
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Do you feel they can be organises to divide the milk?
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Are they well organised?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
we still need to decide about such qestions, before the farm starts, of course together with the community
Guillaume says:
i think they can save money and look for some goats else
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Sorry guys. I have to go now. BUt thanks for coming and look forward to seeing the results of the chat
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Sorry I cannot stay longer
Sonja Marjanovic says:
do you think Guillume that there won't be problems between them about dividing milk and other things?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
thank you raul
Tanja says:
ciao Raul
Guillaume says:
Ciao
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Ciao. Maybe we can chat again soon
Raul Alberto Caceres says:
Thanks again
Tanja says:
I will be on time
Sonja Marjanovic says:
don't worry
Guillaume says:
sonja I think they are organised and problem could not exist between them in dividing milk

Raul Alberto Caceres has left the conversation.

Tanja says:
I remember seeing that people in Walungu have experience in raising cattle on nabuur
Sonja Marjanovic says:
that's good to hear
Tanja says:
but now Raul said that they don't
Tanja says:
Guillaume, does anybody currently living in your village has any experience with raising animals?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
the families have experience in cattle in general, but since they don't have milk goats in area, it's a new thing for them
Tanja says:
but did they milk cows?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
yes, as far as I know. Guillaume are you there?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and also they need to learn how to feed the goats to get more milk
Guillaume says:
yes
Sonja Marjanovic says:
am I giving correct answers?
Guillaume says:
that's right Sonja
Tanja says:
but bottom line- if tomorrow Walungu gets two goats - the people will know how to milk them and how to feed them
Tanja says:
they will not know how to do it most efficiently but will have some basic understanding- correct?
Guillaume says:
as far as they are trained they'l be able
Guillaume says:
because they were able to do that with cow
Tanja says:
Guillaume, where will you get the goats from?
Tanja says:
you ask the goat traders to help with training?
Tanja says:
Can you?
Guillaume says:
This is new too for me
Guillaume says:
i learned it in the books
Tanja says:
If somebody shows you how to do it will you be able to show the rest of the people?
Guillaume says:
yes i do
Guillaume says:
yes i'l be
Tanja says:
Do you know where you can get the goats? Is there a goat farm around you ?
Guillaume says:
in uganda
Tanja says:
is it too much trouble for you to go there? is it expensive?
Guillaume says:
no presentely
Tanja says:
so the closest place to get the goats and get some training is uganda
Sonja Marjanovic says:
They are rather close to the border as far as I understand
Guillaume says:
i dont know exactely if they exist a center of trainig in uganda
Guillaume says:
hello
Tanja says:
so if you want to buy the goats you just go to the farm and pay, but the farm does not provide any advice, is thet correct?
Guillaume says:
tanja
Guillaume says:
sonja
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Guillaume thinks that it would be good idea to try to get in contact with butare Uni (the one you suggested)
Sonja Marjanovic says:
it might work if we get them interested
Tanja says:
ok
Guillaume says:
we planned to ask nico how toget intouch
Tanja says:
Do you want me to try to contact them?
Guillaume says:
yes if possible
Sonja Marjanovic says:
do you know something more about them Tanja?
Tanja says:
Or may be Nico has connections?
Tanja says:
I know they have a joint program with a university in the US
Sonja Marjanovic says:
it would be good. I don't think Nico has connections, but we could check that
Tanja says:
I can ask the leading professor to help us
Sonja Marjanovic says:
but if you are wiling it would be great
Tanja says:
he may be willing to do so
Tanja says:
ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
do you know him personaly?
Tanja says:
willl email him later today
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok, great
Sonja Marjanovic says:
is that the one you posted his email on the forum?
Tanja says:
I contacted him earlier in the project and he recommended breeds
Tanja says:
but then Ken recommended the pigmee goats
Sonja Marjanovic says:
what breeds did he recommend?
Tanja says:
,yes, same guy
Sonja Marjanovic says:
no pigmy goats in area acoording to Guillaume's findings
Guillaume says:
in rwanda pigmy?
Tanja says:
ok, let me check
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Are there pigmy in Rwanda Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
I'm asking Tanja too
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
i'll be back in 2 min
Tanja says:
Toggenburg or Anglo-Nubian, both of which have been introduced into Kenya
and there might be some crossbred animals in Rwanda.
Guillaume says:
Right if rwanda had them it 's easy in rwanda than in uganda
Tanja says:
great
Tanja says:
it possible to check ?
Tanja says:
is it
Guillaume says:
I can call some one to check
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok, great
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and ask how much would they cost
Sonja Marjanovic says:
can you?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
good coppy
Tanja says:
plus transportation costs, vaccinations
Guillaume says:
exact
Tanja says:
can you ask for price for both male and female
Guillaume says:
and border cost
Guillaume says:
customer cost
Tanja says:
right
Tanja says:
I will ask prof Gipson if he can give us a contact in the university
Tanja says:
will the goats stay in a farm or they will go out to the fields?
Guillaume says:
in the farm
Sonja Marjanovic says:
we think it would be best to have some fence so that they wouldn't escape
Sonja Marjanovic says:
or to be attacked by other animals
Tanja says:
and I sorry to keep asking the same question but - is there anybody in Walungu who can train the rest of the people? Somebody who knows about milking and ...
Tanja says:
the rest of the activities that happen in a farm
Sonja Marjanovic says:
tHere are volunteers that are involved in the project
Sonja Marjanovic says:
some of them specialized in livestock
Tanja says:
that are currently in walungu
Tanja says:
ok
Tanja says:
what is our timetable
Sonja Marjanovic says:
so they could be trained and then transmit the knowledge to the people
Sonja Marjanovic says:
right Guillaume?
Tanja says:
people should be trained by June?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
correct me if i say somthing wrong
Guillaume says:
yes sonja
Tanja says:
good, but we need goats in order to train people , right?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
well that would be best, so that they are already trained atleast a bit, before they invest the money from the harvest in goats
Guillaume says:
exactely
Tanja says:
can not train without the animals
Guillaume says:
By doing is good
Sonja Marjanovic says:
sure, that's why raul and I proposed to share expeses for 2 goats and other neccessary things about deno farm
Tanja says:
hmm, than the two goats may be our sunk cost
Tanja says:
ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
sunk cost?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
sorry
Sonja Marjanovic says:
what do you mean?
Tanja says:
most likely the goats will not survive too long if people are learning on them
Tanja says:
and this may be a investment that will never be payed back but it is needed for the learning process
Sonja Marjanovic says:
could be. but we believe that if they will be trained on them they should take more care about them... there should always be someone to look after the animals... but it's true that it might happen
Tanja says:
right
Guillaume says:
I think that they will take care of them
Tanja says:
that is even better
Tanja says:
ok, Guillaume, do you want to ask around about the cost of the goats
Guillaume says:
yes sonja
Guillaume says:
Rwanda
Tanja says:
and confirm that you have some volunteers with experience on the ground
Guillaume says:
who have back ground in livestock breeding ,but no in goatmilking
Guillaume says:
insemination
Sonja Marjanovic says:
do you think it would be better to start with natural insemination? especially if you buy milk breeds?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
a male and a female goat?
Tanja says:
I do
Guillaume says:
milk breed before
Guillaume says:
natural way for a start
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok.
Sonja Marjanovic says:
so what we need next is to find someone for the training. so I'll contact Manu who is livestock specialist, to see what he could do, if he could be trained and them pass it to the community
Guillaume says:
ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
is that ok Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
yes
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and could you also talk to the other volunteers to see if someon else could do it as well?
Guillaume says:
i think this is good for back up specialist when Manu could not be able
Sonja Marjanovic says:
that's right
Sonja Marjanovic says:
will you talk to them then?
Guillaume says:
for gender we have a wife as a volunteer
Sonja Marjanovic says:

Guillaume says:
who had a diploma in development
Guillaume says:
Roseline
Sonja Marjanovic says:
what development?
Guillaume says:
social
Guillaume says:
she has adegree i think
Sonja Marjanovic says:
do you think she would be the right person?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
for the livestock?
Guillaume says:
as a back up of Manu
Guillaume says:
to promote woman in doing
Sonja Marjanovic says:

Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok, then you'll talk to her?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
yes
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok
Tanja says:
in Walungu - do women work together with men ?
Guillaume says:
yes
Sonja Marjanovic says:
do they have the ownership of the animals, or only men?
Guillaume says:
only men
Tanja says:
i see
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and if she has no husband or a son?
Guillaume says:
yes she can or give it to her brother as responsability
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and do they work with animals more or less than men?
Guillaume says:
Man are responsible that as far as i know,women are those who are looking leaves and whatever to animals
Sonja Marjanovic says:
what does that mean that men are responsible?
Guillaume says:
women could not take decision to sell an animal
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and the women provide food for the animals?
Guillaume says:
or to yes
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and do the milking and other care?
Guillaume says:
man
Sonja Marjanovic says:
man what?
Guillaume says:
helping by his wife
Tanja says:
so the man do the milking
Tanja says:
?
Guillaume says:
yes
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ah, ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and do the men also decide what to do with the milk
Guillaume says:
yes the man
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and the women take care of food?
Tanja says:
will the men be responsible to give the milk to the kids
Guillaume says:
all right
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Guillaume?
Guillaume says:
yes
Sonja Marjanovic says:
is the answer "yes " on both questions?
Guillaume says:
no to give milk is the responsability of woman
Guillaume says:
sorry I've respond to your call
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok. so the women give the milk to the children, but if they would like to sell milk, would that be decided by a man?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
or a woman can decide that?
Tanja says:
but if the men decide what to do with the milk that the women have no say in the distribution , right?
Guillaume says:
they have to chare and take decision but the last decision belong to the man
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok
Guillaume says:
but the who will go to sell is the woman
Guillaume says:
who will bring milk to the market
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ah, ok
Tanja says:
where is the closest market?
Tanja says:
who decides the price to sell?
Guillaume says:
they have different day of market in the village
Guillaume says:
and different day
Guillaume says:
the may can give the price
Guillaume says:
accordingly with his wife
Tanja says:
ok, can people afford to buy the milk
Tanja says:
or do they exchange goods
Guillaume says:
eager to buy
Sonja Marjanovic says:
do they get the money for the ilk or something else?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
milk, sorry
Tanja says:
but if you split the milk between 20 families you will not have much left to sell in the begining
Sonja Marjanovic says:
I don't think they will sell anything in the begining
Guillaume says:
I think when the 20 famillies will be able to get milk it will be possible
Sonja Marjanovic says:
you mean when all the families will have a goat?
Guillaume says:
when they will have a certain nomber of goat and yield a quantity of milk
Tanja says:
great
Sonja Marjanovic says:
that's right. so I think it won't happen at the very beginning
Sonja Marjanovic says:
but the goal is to sell milk eventualy
Tanja says:
I have to go now but thank you for your time and your answers
Guillaume says:
good they will start best they will progress
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
then you will ask the professor about contact in Butare Uni?
Guillaume says:
thank you too tanja for your participation
Tanja says:
Have a good afternoon and talk to you soon
Guillaume says:
regards tanja
Sonja Marjanovic says:
thank you Tanj
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and see you soon
Tanja says:
I emailed a friend who is running a goat farm in Kenya to ask for advice
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
so you're waiting for response?
Guillaume says:
ciao
Guillaume says:
response?
Sonja Marjanovic says:
the answer from her friend
Tanja says:
Welcome, I will ask prof Gipson for some more help , hopefully he will be able to point us in the right direction
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok, thanks
Sonja Marjanovic says:
let us know how it went
Tanja says:
yes, I just emailed, I hope she will be able to help out
Tanja says:
ciao ciao
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and Guillaume you'll ask about oggenburg or Anglo-Nubian that might exist in Rwanda
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ciao tanja
Sonja Marjanovic says:
thanks again
Tanja says:
no, thank YOU
Guillaume says:
i'l email a guy in Rwanda to check
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok
Tanja says:
for your patience today
Sonja Marjanovic says:
Tanja let us know when you would like to talk again
Sonja Marjanovic says:
no problem
Guillaume says:
shedule
Guillaume says:
schedule
Tanja says:
sounds good
Sonja Marjanovic says:
we'll program another chat
Sonja Marjanovic says:
just inform us when it suits you
Sonja Marjanovic says:
ok?
Sonja Marjanovic says:

Sonja Marjanovic says:
hope you're satisfied for today
Tanja says:
I will be in Geneva and Lyon next week, not sure about schedule
Guillaume says:
ok
Tanja says:
but I will be available the week after next
Sonja Marjanovic says:
no problem, when you have time
Sonja Marjanovic says:
great
Guillaume says:
let's sonja inform us
Tanja says:
great, all the best
Sonja Marjanovic says:
to you too
Sonja Marjanovic says:
bye
Sonja Marjanovic says:
and thank you Guillaume
Guillaume says:
thakn you too
Sonja Marjanovic says:
see you guys soon
Guillaume says:
ok
Sonja Marjanovic says:
bye

Dear all, sorry for waiting. Here are some most important points from our chat held on Wednesday:

* Nico proposed opening a shop instead of demo farm. The most of the neighbours believe that it could be an idea to consider some time after launching the project but not in the begining, for two main reasons:
- lack of the financial resources
- the community having the experience in livestock rather than in trade

* Nico have contacted several organizations
- the Belgian NGO "Aid Walungu"; they work closely together with Regroupement Force Rurale
- a training centre for farmers in Holland called PTC; they train farmers from the Third World. People from Congo, Uganda, etc got to Holland for three months with a scholarship and learn how to farm. They send out experts/teachers to train the people in farming
- and he’s also willing to contact people of FAO in Rome/Italy
However, we did not get more info about their feedback, hope to hear about it soon from Nico.

* With Tanja we discussed some important aspects of the project, got more information about Walungu and agreed about some actions:

ownership and training
- decision about the ownership of the project is still to be made
- Guillaume thinks that the people are organised and that there should not be the problems with, for example, dividing milk
- the families have experience in cattle in general, but since they don't have milk goats in area, it's a new experience for them
- Tanja will ask prof Gipson for some more help – to give us some advices and a contact at Butare university in Rwanda (Email sent and the contact person name received and forwarded to Guillaume)
- Guillaume is going to contact Butare University to ask for training

timeframe
it would be the best if the people could be trained before July when they will invest the money from the harvest in goats

environment
- we are thinking about setting some fence for the goats so that they wouldn't escape or got attacked by other animals

volunteers
- there are volunteers on Walungu side that are involved in the project, some of them are specialized in livestock so there is a possibility that they got trained and then pass the knowledge to the people

gender issues
- women work together with men, women provide food for the animals and men do the milking
- men own the animals, they take decisions for example to sell an animal – women take part in making decisions, but the final decision belong to men
- women are those to sell the milk on the market

goat breeds
- Guillaume found out that there are no pigmy goats in area. He will ask around about Toggenburg or Anglo-Nubian, as professor Gipson suggested, both of which have been introduced into Kenya, to see if there are some crossbred animals in Rwanda (He already sent an emal with inquiry)

Have a nice weekend everyone,
Sonja

HI everyone,

Great summary Sonja, as usual :-)

Nico, demo farm does not necessarily mean that the farmers participating of it are experts but that we would find ways to transfer knowledge to this place and that the methods and learnings applied there could serve as demonstration for the new farms. For example, I have seen it applied in project when the group transferring the knowledge looks for a committed and open minded farmer and help him with training and maybe a bit of money. This is after carrying out some research in some new methods and then he/she would be the one that will apply the methods first. With the research we would know that the methods would work and then most farmers will be convinced of using the technologies. THis is specially useful in areas where there is a lot of tradition in the methods used and it is hard to make them change their mind but once they see the benefits they all change to the new improved method.

Hope this helps,

Raul

Goodmorning all,
I read with great interest the newsletter Sonja has produced and I think it is very well done. That is why I wondered, should not we send some kind of newsletter to a wider group of people: friends,organizations, people in our personal networks etc. ?
By the way, Raul and I met last Tuesday in Amersfoort, Holland, where the headquarters of Nabuur is located. We spoke for over an hour about the concept of Nabuur and of course about Walungu.
Regards,
Nico

Thanks Nico,

I share your view. Very nice newsletter Sonja. :-) . Big applause for your for your commitment and motivation to support Walungu.

Have you heard from Guillaume?. Is he feeling better now?

Thanks for the meeting also Nico. It was great to here more about your ideas and to share our views about Walungu and about Nabuur.

I look forward to continuing working to support Walungu.

Take care,

Raul

Hi every body,

I have recovered and healthy now.I'm very glad to hear that Nico and Raoul met to chair about walungu.Can we be informed about outcome so far.
once again I thank you again for your support to come over walungu challenges.

Guillaume

Hi Guys,

yesterday I talked to Guillaume, he had an appointment with FONDAMU management in Kinshasa scheduled for today. I should talk to him tomorrow again to hear how was the appointment.

He heard from two volunteers - Manu, a livestock specialist with experience abroad, and Roger, who has degree in agriculture, that they are available for training.

The people are literate enough to use the manuals.

No news neither about the seed nor about any other mailed stuff. Nothing of the sent items reached Congo so far :(
Guillaume is in contact with LR of Uvira - Menga Rodolphe. They recently got some stuff for computers so he said if there's something to be sent we can use his address.

I heard from a friend of mine who found someone traveling to Congo soon. The person is from Texas and I hope we'll make it to get the seed to Walungu at last. :-)

Best,
Sonja

Getting someone going to the DRC to take some stuff would be great.

Raul

Dear Sonja and all,

I'm glad to be one of Walungu Village but at the first time I'm one of Guillaune's friend in Nabuur and I have the pleasure to see all thing is going will in this village.

I have promised Guillaume to use my Postal address and other address for things and good that Walungu can get as a donation.

We can be contacted at this postal address : Menga Rodolphe Po Box : 402 Bujumbura Burundi and other more information we can get it at www.mjardc.org.

Hope to meet you soon

Yours

Rolph

Rolph, thank you very much for offering us help with the post. It's strange that anything of the mailed items didn't arrive by now :(

Guys, it seems that Walungu will get the seed and dvds finally, Ken will mail them to the person in Texas that is going to DRC very soon, and hopefully they will arrive in time.

Ken please let us know what's going on, have you mailed it already... I sent him Guillaume's phone number, he'll go Kinshasa to pick the package. Thank you very much.

Everyone, keep the fingers crossed. It has to arrive this time. :-)

I have mailed the seed and farm dvds [one in French] and I gave the man who emailed me [he is not the man going to the Congo???] the email address of Sonja so they can email directly about picking up the box. I actually do not know the date of arrival of the man. They gave me the man's postal address to mail the seed to and that is all.

All the seed I have mailed to countries in central Africa did not arrive. So if you hear of another American going,I can send more as I have ordered new crop seed.

I only send small envelopes of seed so you must save seed for next year and for more extensive plantings.

Ken