Guillaume, I agree with all of your recommendations, but I do question the concept of having the shed on ground level.
From the manuals that I have, it suggests, particularly in the tropics, to have a goat shed on a raised foundation. This is in conjunction with slatted floors so that the rooms can be easily cleaned, and so that waste can drain to the ground below.
Additionally, goats like many animals, are not very tolerant of draughts, hence the need for an enclosed shelter. In hot weather the doors can be left open, and there are vents as required for ventillation.
To quote from the Agrodok Manual(See the Resources section) "Goat Keeping in the Tropics", p47
Quote:
With the help of good housing, a waterproof roof and
draught-proof walls to keep out damp and draughts, you will avoid having sick goats. Goats are generally well protected against the cold by their coat of hair. Extreme heat, on the other hand, bothers them. A goat will search for shade by itself if it gets too hot. If no shade is to be found, you must provide it yourself (a shelter).
Also have a look at the "Farmer's Dairy Goat Production Handbook" Pp4-5, published by FARM Africa. There are numerous points within this text to which I referred when preparing my plan. This manual was created within the context of Kenya.
Guillaume, based on Tanja's comments, what is the wet season like in Walungu? Does it rain a lot, and for long periods of time?
I think that it's important that we make the right decision now, to save in problems later down the track. If the shed is built well, and the animals are comfortable, there will be less complications with their health and care, and consequently less long-term expense as a result.
"The waste can drain to the ground below" is a no-no. That waste is fertilizer that should be removed and taken back to the field. Use bedding to soak up the urine and collect the solids.
With the sheds we are building in Menengai, we have used a design that allows the draining of manure into a lateral deposit so that they can be used as fertiliser.
OK, well a slat floor is recommended in the manual "Farmer's Dairy Goat Production Handbook". The Agrodok manual also suggests that in the wet tropics that the floor be constructed of bamboo or wooden slats. This is not to mean that the waste is allowed to simply "drop" and not be collected and utilised. This much, I thought, was an obvious fact.
I concede that there may be a number of ways to construct the shed, so let's discuss...
What does everyone think of us carrying out an objective assessment of the goat's needs, future plans, local conditions, building materials, and reaching a consensus based on everyone's input? That way we get rid of the "no-no's" and all our contributions can be fully considered and valued. This is a team effort afterall.
I am for the assessment. A thing to keep in mind- back in the days :-) when I was working on the risk assessment and SWOT analysis the main objection was " too much analysis and not enough action".
Ken - that's a very good idea. I'll talk to Guillaume to check if they can visit someone with the goats... A while ago we decided that he will visit a farm to see the sheds when he's about to buy goats, but we were thinking about milk goats (that we can't find now :-S)... But visiting someone with non milk goats is a good idea as well.
Raul - could it be possible for you to provide us with the design of Menengai sheds? Is it too complicated? Maybe we could get good ideas?
Everyone - Scott will send us a document with his concernes and questions, and I'll try to talk this evening or tomorrow to Guillaume about it. Please give your ideas and questions so we can get the best solution as soon as possible.
Scott, Guillaume - how do the plans look to you? Do you think we could use this solution for collecting manure?
Maybe also to use the fences instead of walls like here? Are the cows more resistant to draught than goats? I have a feeling that the goats would be fine only with the fence...?
Scott - I will try to talk to Guillaume as soon as possible about your list of concerns.
I guess the shed should be raised because of the rains and the cleaning - maybe better than using concrete? What do you guys think?
Raúl, it seems to me that these cow sheds are on concrete ground, aren't they?
The area should be covered I think because of the rain and sun. I am not sure how cold or windy there can be for the animals, let's see with Guillaume.
As for the separated rooms for the sick animals, do you think we would need it right now, or maybe to add that later on when there is more material available?
Ken - it would be great to have your input for all these questions. Can you please have a look at wiki and Raúl's cow shed plans and tell us what you think?
here's the plan of cow sheds in PDF. It's rather complex for us, but maybe we could get some ideas for the floor, manure and walls...
The wiki document can be accessed by clicking the green button on this page on the right (among the other green buttons). Maybe you will need to be logged in to be able to access it.
Is the stall where the cow will live? When I went to India to teach workshops, I visited a dairy farm. When an animal is born, it is tied in a stall and spents the rest of its life there. She is bred there, gives birth there, milked there and dies there. They complain about low milk production. I told them that treating a cow that way they cannot expect any high production.
They said that they could not put them in a lot/yard all loose because they fight. I said to cut off the horns and those that still fight to sell them to the Muslims who will eat them.
I would have a large pen with a shed on one side. They can come to a stall for milking.
It is best to use grazing for the cows but otherwise, cut and carry forages.
That is an expensive way to handle manure. Use bedding and take it to the field/garden and use as mulch. It is also labor intensive.
I agree, the plans look great! Thanks Raul. I'm not sure of what the difference is between the requirements of cows and goats though. All I can say is that the material I'm referring to seems to have the goat shed as a walled enclosure. I don't quite understand why goats would be any more prone to suffering from the elements (wind, heat, cold) than cows...
The lateral waste collection could still be a possibility, even with a raised-style shed, with bedding, manure, etc being swept through a hatch in the floor to a collection pit off to the side. This may save time, since the waste is collected at a central location, can be sealed off, and accessed as required.
I agree with Ken, a quarantine area is probably unecessary, at this stage at least. When the herd grows, maybe it could be considered.
I did consider a fenced off pen area for the animals to wander on ground level. My concern was about the rains though, and if the ground is prone to becoming muddy. It may not be a year-round solution, but I believe that it would be preferable in the warmer, drier months for the animals to get out of the shed.
I've found a manual for goatkeeping, both in English and French. THey were made by a dutch organisation - Agromisa - that has a lot of experience in tropical agriculture.
Guillaume, I agree with all of your recommendations, but I do question the concept of having the shed on ground level.
From the manuals that I have, it suggests, particularly in the tropics, to have a goat shed on a raised foundation. This is in conjunction with slatted floors so that the rooms can be easily cleaned, and so that waste can drain to the ground below.
Additionally, goats like many animals, are not very tolerant of draughts, hence the need for an enclosed shelter. In hot weather the doors can be left open, and there are vents as required for ventillation.
To quote from the Agrodok Manual(See the Resources section) "Goat Keeping in the Tropics", p47
Also have a look at the "Farmer's Dairy Goat Production Handbook" Pp4-5, published by FARM Africa. There are numerous points within this text to which I referred when preparing my plan. This manual was created within the context of Kenya.
Guillaume, based on Tanja's comments, what is the wet season like in Walungu? Does it rain a lot, and for long periods of time?
I think that it's important that we make the right decision now, to save in problems later down the track. If the shed is built well, and the animals are comfortable, there will be less complications with their health and care, and consequently less long-term expense as a result.
"The waste can drain to the ground below" is a no-no. That waste is fertilizer that should be removed and taken back to the field. Use bedding to soak up the urine and collect the solids.
Hi Everyone,
With the sheds we are building in Menengai, we have used a design that allows the draining of manure into a lateral deposit so that they can be used as fertiliser.
Raul
OK, well a slat floor is recommended in the manual "Farmer's Dairy Goat Production Handbook". The Agrodok manual also suggests that in the wet tropics that the floor be constructed of bamboo or wooden slats. This is not to mean that the waste is allowed to simply "drop" and not be collected and utilised. This much, I thought, was an obvious fact.
I concede that there may be a number of ways to construct the shed, so let's discuss...
What does everyone think of us carrying out an objective assessment of the goat's needs, future plans, local conditions, building materials, and reaching a consensus based on everyone's input? That way we get rid of the "no-no's" and all our contributions can be fully considered and valued. This is a team effort afterall.
Cheers!
Scott ;)
Scott,
I am for the assessment. A thing to keep in mind- back in the days :-) when I was working on the risk assessment and SWOT analysis the main objection was " too much analysis and not enough action".
Best,
Tanja
Tanja, a common problem with NABUUR. I suggest that some one, in the village, visit 3 farmers raising goats and view their sheds.
Ken - that's a very good idea. I'll talk to Guillaume to check if they can visit someone with the goats... A while ago we decided that he will visit a farm to see the sheds when he's about to buy goats, but we were thinking about milk goats (that we can't find now :-S)... But visiting someone with non milk goats is a good idea as well.
Raul - could it be possible for you to provide us with the design of Menengai sheds? Is it too complicated? Maybe we could get good ideas?
Everyone - Scott will send us a document with his concernes and questions, and I'll try to talk this evening or tomorrow to Guillaume about it. Please give your ideas and questions so we can get the best solution as soon as possible.
Take care,
Sonja
Hey everyone,
These are the plans in low res. Let me know if they look ok or I can send in high res.
Talk soon,
Raul
Hi everyone,
I've just put a collection of issues relating to the building of the shed into the wiki for this task. I look forward to your contributions!
Cheers,
Scott
Thanks for the plans Raúl.
Scott, Guillaume - how do the plans look to you? Do you think we could use this solution for collecting manure?
Maybe also to use the fences instead of walls like here? Are the cows more resistant to draught than goats? I have a feeling that the goats would be fine only with the fence...?
Scott - I will try to talk to Guillaume as soon as possible about your list of concerns.
I guess the shed should be raised because of the rains and the cleaning - maybe better than using concrete? What do you guys think?
Raúl, it seems to me that these cow sheds are on concrete ground, aren't they?
The area should be covered I think because of the rain and sun. I am not sure how cold or windy there can be for the animals, let's see with Guillaume.
As for the separated rooms for the sick animals, do you think we would need it right now, or maybe to add that later on when there is more material available?
Ken - it would be great to have your input for all these questions. Can you please have a look at wiki and Raúl's cow shed plans and tell us what you think?
Looking forward to hearing from you all.
Sonja
Sonja,
Please tell me how to access Wiki to look at the plans. The people in the village know how to build a cow shed.
If the animals are properly feed and cared for, there is no need for a room for sick animals. That will be very, very rare. Not worth the cost.
Hi Ken,
here's the plan of cow sheds in PDF. It's rather complex for us, but maybe we could get some ideas for the floor, manure and walls...
The wiki document can be accessed by clicking the green button on this page on the right (among the other green buttons). Maybe you will need to be logged in to be able to access it.
Look forward to hearing from you
Sonja
Is the stall where the cow will live? When I went to India to teach workshops, I visited a dairy farm. When an animal is born, it is tied in a stall and spents the rest of its life there. She is bred there, gives birth there, milked there and dies there. They complain about low milk production. I told them that treating a cow that way they cannot expect any high production.
They said that they could not put them in a lot/yard all loose because they fight. I said to cut off the horns and those that still fight to sell them to the Muslims who will eat them.
I would have a large pen with a shed on one side. They can come to a stall for milking.
It is best to use grazing for the cows but otherwise, cut and carry forages.
That is an expensive way to handle manure. Use bedding and take it to the field/garden and use as mulch. It is also labor intensive.
Just my opinion.
Hi Sonja,
I agree, the plans look great! Thanks Raul. I'm not sure of what the difference is between the requirements of cows and goats though. All I can say is that the material I'm referring to seems to have the goat shed as a walled enclosure. I don't quite understand why goats would be any more prone to suffering from the elements (wind, heat, cold) than cows...
The lateral waste collection could still be a possibility, even with a raised-style shed, with bedding, manure, etc being swept through a hatch in the floor to a collection pit off to the side. This may save time, since the waste is collected at a central location, can be sealed off, and accessed as required.
I agree with Ken, a quarantine area is probably unecessary, at this stage at least. When the herd grows, maybe it could be considered.
I did consider a fenced off pen area for the animals to wander on ground level. My concern was about the rains though, and if the ground is prone to becoming muddy. It may not be a year-round solution, but I believe that it would be preferable in the warmer, drier months for the animals to get out of the shed.
Hi all,
I've found a manual for goatkeeping, both in English and French. THey were made by a dutch organisation - Agromisa - that has a lot of experience in tropical agriculture.
Hope these manuals are useful!
Pelle
P.S. first doc is French, second is English